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Topic Closed1968 302 2v valve stem height problem

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68torinomgh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1968 302 2v valve stem height problem
    Posted: 23-August-2011 at 3:40PM
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Hello. I hope that someone can shed light on my problem and some possible solutions.

1968 Ford Torino
5/10/1968
302 2v heads
stock adjustable rail rockers (stud same all the way down, no stop)
stock everything else

Had the heads redone 6 years ago and recently got the car back together. I adjusted the valve lash using the spin the rod until it stops and give 3/4 turn.

still made valve noise. Adjusted again to be sure, no better result. I took the covers off today and removed a lifter. you can see that the rails on the rocker were making contact with the keeper for the valve. not a lot as i have only driven the car about 20 miles total.

After some investigation, I have determined that the machine shop had prepared the head with insufficient stem height as if it had non rail rockers. (My fault to not know what i was doing when i gave it to them.) The stem height of the valve is not sufficient to keep the rails off of the spring retainer.

Exhaust valve stem height is longer than the intake. roughly 1/8" to 3/32 or so for the intake (rough ballpark). Why they are not consistent with the length i do not know. I checked the left bank and found no bent pushrods.

I am wondering if valve lash caps can remedy my problem? is this a possible and permanent fix for this situation?

Do I find another machine shop to remedy the problem by installing screw in studs, pushrod guides and go to the non rail rockers hardened pushrods or roller tipped rockers?

I have pictures but cant figure out how to post them.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Marco

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-August-2011 at 5:23PM
Marco - welcome to the site!

You have certainly come to the right place to get some technical advice. There are several here who will be able to help.

I'm not so much of a help in that category, but I can say I had somewhat similar problems earlier this year with a poorly rebuilt motor, and I ended up taking the heads (with about 30,000 miles on them) to a very reputable machine shop. $1100 later, I had a set of heads that were basically brand new. The folks before (cheapo rebuild) butchered the heads (literally).

My woes can be seen here - 


With respect to posting a picture, please check out this thread - it will provide you a couple of options. THe easiest is to post the pics here. There are some folks on the forum that prefer the photo bucket method, however. Personal choice. The link to the thread is:


Scott Eklund

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2011 at 9:51AM
Thanks for the hospitality.

Here are some pics of the problem. Hope that someone can tell me if I'm screwed or not..

thanks.
 
Marco

Thank you. I'm sure that the vast knowledge found here will help out.

trying to load a pic or 2
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2011 at 10:21AM
Is it cheaper to buy some aftermarket heads that are pre-assembled?

Marco
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2011 at 12:08PM
Something does not look right, but I am not a small block head pro, so I can't say for sure.

I will tell you, based on my personal experience with my FE heads, that a set of E-brock's would have been about the same price (ok, a few hundred more) by the time I was all done with the matter.

I sort of wish now I had done that. $1100 + few odds and ends versus $1400. E-brock stated I needed to use ARP head bolts with their heads.. I balked at that, but a month later what am I reinstalling my factory heads with? Yea, I bought a set of ARP head bolts... (they were only like $55).

So do give some consideration to a new set of heads. There are prob some small block considerations you may need to worry about, but overall it is probably a good idea.
Scott Eklund

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2011 at 12:38PM
Thanks for responding to my post.

funny that you would offer this information just as i am googling heads.

any recommendations that will not break the bank?  I have been looking at the edelbrock performer RPM thus far. Only looking for mild performance. I dont care if the heads are aluminum or cast iron.

If I replace the valves that I have and install new springs  and go back to rail rockers it would be the cheapest i think. right now the valves are 2.0 and 1.9 approx. i dont remember which. some porting was done as well. for the short time i ran the motor, it produced good power, idled very well, and was responsive.

will first see how much i will be into this $$ and go from there. We arent giving up yet. Here are a few pics of the car. notice the fasten your seat belt sticker still present LOL





thanks for the help. I will keep you posted

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2011 at 2:38PM
That really is a beautiful car!

For head recommendations, I am normally an Edelbrock sort of guy. Personal preference - there are a ton of really good quality new head manufacturers out there - especially for small block Ford. However, the reason I like Edelbrock is for the fact they normally make a head (and other parts) that are pretty compatible with most things, they are generally USA made, the quality is generally good to excellent, and for heads (I know for FE anyway) the exhaust ports are in the stock location. 

Again, there may be cheaper/better/better options out there. Just my opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2011 at 3:51PM
I kinda like the edelbrock too. not sure if the money will be available for it or not. I will have to see when I meet the machinist.

History of the car: When we got it, it only had 68,000 orig miles (now91000). The factory air worked and nothing had been changed from the factory delivery. within a month the trans went from sitting too long. I replaced it with a Hughes C4 and added a mild converter at that time. 23k later, my wife spun the timing set out. gotta love the nylon and pot metal engineering. New set and balancer with water pump at that time. I hoped that we had no damage to the valves but we were not that lucky. $1000 later we got the heads back. The shop bowl cut them and put the intake out to 2. something and 1.8 or 9 for the exhaust. it sat for 6 years before i could get to it. Good compression on lower end with 153 even across all cylinders. Sometime during this period, my wife confessed to leaving the Ebrake on for a 60 mile trip thus explaining the leak from the rear axle seals.

Had the rear end done, springs were re-arced later we found that they were too stiff from the spring guy adding a 5th leaf. pulled them off and replaced with stock springs. switched from drum to disc in the front and rebuilt the rear brakes. Replaced the stock intake with an Edelbrock performer and a Holley 4150, changed the coil to MSD. Recently, added a whole lower steering unit from chockostang. bolted right up and works like a dream.

When we went to start it the first time, we had a horrible time. My wife said that she saw an acorn come out of the tail pipe..... I cut of the exhaust to find it packed full of acorns and other debris for 4 feet of the tailpipe. Lesson learned when you live in the woods. Amazing how it started when we got the stuff out LOL

The car belonged to an old lady. it was sold at an estate sale and we got it for $3200. We love it. It now goes to my daughter to drive to school--how cool she will be!

thanks for your input.

Marco
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2011 at 4:28PM
Would offset valve keepers be a solution to my problem? Can I adjust the stem height and still retain spring pressure integrity?

Marco
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-August-2011 at 1:29AM
Can you fit 2.0 valve in a 302 head. My heads I was told have2.0 chev stainless with roller rockers.rockers true took of valve cover.Ford guys tell me 2.0 won't fit in 302 heads.They get real tec about this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-August-2011 at 5:53AM
just guessing on the size. got pulled the heads last night and will measure.  thanks

Marco

I should use new headbolts as these have been used twice. Any suggestions of which ones to use?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2011 at 5:12AM
Marco, the problem is that you are using Ford rail type rocker arms on chevy valves that are not rail type. You will need push rod guide plates (for Ford) and you may need to have the rocker arm stud holes drilled and tapped for screw in rocker studs to retain the plates as the the original 68 studs are most likely the press in type.

The original Ford valves have a tip that extends higher than the chevy valve tips, and is designed to clear the rail type rockers. Your machine shop should have told you about this. Perhaps they did back 6 years ago when the heads were redone.


IMHO the machine shop should not have installed bigger chevy valves in your heads as the ports are small and need to ported (alot) to get any advantage in flow from bigger valves.

The Edelbrock heads have valves and ports that are well matched to each other and they have great flow for street applications.

I know hindsight is 20/20 and you may need to keep your original heads to save money.

You could call a company such as Comp Cams who makes all types of rockers and guide plates and find out what their solution would be.
Mark

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73 Gran Torino Sport 429 (prodigal son)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2011 at 5:21AM
My learning curve is pretty crazy right now.  The valves are 1.9 and 1.6 respectively using a tape measure. I really have no idea what they installed. it looks like the stems were cut once the valves were fitted. the intake, which are shorter are wider across the stem than the exhaust. the springs are all the same height.

other than the valve keepers and the rockers, there is no damage to the head. It ran wonderfully exc the clatter from the problem.

My first order of business, is to see what it will cost to just have the valves and springs replaced to rail rocker specifications. If it isnt cost effective, i will purchase aftermarket heads to solve my problem.

thanks for your advice and attention to this post

Marco
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2011 at 5:32AM
You're lucky, if the valve keepers had dislodged you could have dropped a valve!
Mark

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2011 at 5:38AM
tell me about it. so glad that i only drove it to get an alignment and back!!

side note:  my combustion chambers are 63cc. I have learned that reducing that will produce higher compression. is this something that is worth messing with? some of the heads that i am looking at are only 60cc. I have stayed away from anything lower. RHS has one with 64cc chamber. how much compression will i lose by increasing the size of the combustion chamber?  I have 150 pounds of compression in each cylinder evenly. with the stock heads.

thanks
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