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1972 Gran Torino Big Block Four Speed

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BackInBlack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2013 at 2:50AM
Are there other Ford "Grabber" colors?
 
Like Mopar's  Lemon Twist, Plum Crazy, etc etc   
 
 
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2013 at 4:16AM
Ford had a Grabber Green, a yellow, an orange, and a Calypso Coral in addition to the Grabber Blue. Pure colors with no metallic. High solids. I have long wanted to do a Grabber color on one, but didn't know how it would look on a big-bodied car.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranchero Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2013 at 1:41PM
Love the Calypso Coral, ever since I seen a late 60's early 70's F 150 short bed done up in that color at a friend's house in Paris Tenn.
Brian   1973 Ford Ranchero Big Block. ''THE OTHER WOMAN''
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2013 at 2:42PM
I had Grabber orange on my 1980 Mustang. LOVE THAT COLOR!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Earp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-April-2013 at 2:00PM
Well, we finally got the car out for the inaugural drive!! A long time coming! 

The cam that was in the engine we had to pull out and I ended up getting a cam from Cars by Carl that had more lift, maybe 10 degrees less duration, but a wider lobe separation. Plus, I put a large port dual plane intake on it instead of the Victor. The bottom line is that we didn't have trouble getting the car fired up and idling although it is a lot of work to swap the cam with the engine in the car. 



From left to right, Jeff G, Sumner S, and myself on the right. We took the car out for a short drive  to a local BBQ restaurant,  scarfed some food, drove a bit on the highway, and met up with a friend of mine with a 72 Charger 440 4 speed. 

I'll have more driving impressions later, but there is one issue I need to fix straightaway - the brake pedal feel.  The car is using the stock master cylinder and has rear Ford Explorer brakes. Everything works, the car stops and so on, but the pedal travel is incredibly long.  I'm betting getting a master cylinder from a Ford Explorer will a) bolt on although may require fitting changes, and b) solve the problem and bring that pedal up off the floor. The brake system is absolutely properly bleed and solid with fluid, no problems with that at all. 

Anyone have any experience with alternative master cylinders on rear disc brake conversions? 




Edited by Ron Earp - 22-April-2013 at 2:04PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote occupant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-April-2013 at 6:04AM
The car looks very nice and I bet it drives beautifully.

Changing from drums to disc requires changing the proportioning valve to work correctly. A disc/drum one will give a longer pedal travel if you have 4 wheel discs. You could try to find one from a 4-wheel disc big Ford or Lincoln, but those are really rare. An aftermarket adjustable one ought to do. Wilworth makes them, and a few others.

Edited by occupant - 23-April-2013 at 6:05AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-April-2013 at 6:17PM
Ron, I am also battling the disc brake issue now and trying to get my setup dialed in just right. Really from here you are the R&D team. You have a mix of Torino and Explorer brakes, now you need to bias them correctly and give yourself the pedal feel you want. I forget, you still have the 11" stock rotors in front right?  See, my biggest issue of my rear disc swap was I almost expected great braking gains but in reality the improvement, if any, is pretty small. Most of the braking is done by the front. I had problems with my drums locking up under hard braking witch is borderline dangerous. The discs are much more predictable in every situation. All around a much smoother feel. I would not describe it as being able to "stop" way faster than before, just a more controlled attitude. The service-ability of the brakes also makes it all the more worth it.

All I know to help you is that you absolutely need a master cylinder that was designed for a car with all wheel discs to get you in the ballpark. The drum mc just doesn't push enough fluid to the back to fill the bores in correct proportion to the front. I know the "92 crown vic std non-abs 4-wheel-disc" master cylinder is a direct bolt on to the oem style 72 vacuum booster because that's what I am using.

Hope I could help. The car looks great! I'm super jealous!
-Billy Conturo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PS122 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-April-2013 at 2:23AM

An '84-'86 Mustang SVO master cylinder may be a good starting point.  Here are some specs that for the SVO braking system:

- Front: 10.9" Rotor with 73mm single piston sliding caliper

-  Rear: 10.66" Rotor with 54mm single-piston sliding caliper w/parking brake

-  Master Cylinder Bore (inches): 1.125 (Aluminum Casting)

 You'll need to compare these specs to the the Gran Torino front discs and Explorer rears.  I really like the later aluminum master cylinders prior to the use of plastic resorvoirs.  I've been thinking of doing this with car but since I still have rear drums and will be upgrading to larger front discs, I'm probably looking at a non-rear disc MC, maybe from a Ranger.
 
Here's a link to an article about the aluminum MCs that might be of interest:
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Earp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2013 at 11:34PM
I'll check that link out on the aluminum master cylinders.

I've been driving the car more and more but have yet to give it any more than about 1/5th throttle. I'm sorting the timing curve, a slipping clutch, and the brakes.

The slipping clutch I fixed. It was caused by the Lakewood bell housing not having enough clearance for the clutch fork and it wasn't releasing all the way. Not sure why I didn't noticed it on assembly, but there you are.  The car would take a tiny bit of throttle, enough to drive around town, but as soon as I gave it any gas it'd slip. I clearanced the bellhousing with the plasma cutter and all is well. 

The brakes are still not good. I installed a Ford SVO master cylinder and the pedal is still very, very, long. I'm going to double check my bleeding, but as of this writing I'd not recommend it. I'm also going to check the push rod and see if there is any adjustment or part I can fabricate that might help there. 

And on the timing curve, well, there might not be much I can do there. The motor has a hint of detonation on throttle tip in. I hope to eliminate it with softening the advance curve, but, when I went back to check my dizzy the installed springs were already the heaviest available and I remember putting them there a couple years back. I check cylinder compression on the motor when hot and we've got 235 psi cranking compression, which suggests a compression ratio at least 12.3:1, and probably higher. So there might have been a mistake made with the engine build process. 

Other than that things are moving along. Last night we made all the AC lines using an AC line crimper, easy as pie. We've got short runs to the compressor, condendser, drier, and evaporator. The plan today is to pull a vacuum on the system and see if it will hold. If it does we'll charge it up and with any luck have some cold air. We need it down here in NC, it's hot already. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-June-2013 at 4:43AM
Originally posted by Ron Earp Ron Earp wrote:

I've been driving the car more and more but have yet to give it any more than about 1/5th throttle. I'm sorting the timing curve, a slipping clutch, and the brakes.

The slipping clutch I fixed. It was caused by the Lakewood bell housing not having enough clearance for the clutch fork and it wasn't releasing all the way. Not sure why I didn't noticed it on assembly, but there you are.  The car would take a tiny bit of throttle, enough to drive around town, but as soon as I gave it any gas it'd slip. I clearanced the bellhousing with the plasma cutter and all is well. 

Its good to hear you are driving it a little.  Ya, I can see how much it would suck adapting bell housing and clutches and realease bearings and all that stuff. It's hard to get clearances right. It doesn't help it is in the hardest part to access on the car. Wacko  Glad you got it sorted out.

Originally posted by Ron Earp Ron Earp wrote:

The brakes are still not good. I installed a Ford SVO master cylinder and the pedal is still very, very, long. I'm going to double check my bleeding, but as of this writing I'd not recommend it. I'm also going to check the push rod and see if there is any adjustment or part I can fabricate that might help there. 

Ya that push rod could be the problem. I adjusted mine until it was just slightly pushing the mc when the last few bolt turns would happen. Then I took it back out and shortened the push rod by a little less than one turn and that seems to put it right where it needed to be although it sounds like you got too much travel regardless of when the push rod is contacting. 
How is the initial grab? Depending on the pads, getting them hot really helps. Speaking of heat.. Bead-in is pretty important.  
I did some research on that MC and I really don't know what it's base proportioning is because there is almost no info on the mustangs rear brakes it was designed for. There also might be something else in the system, like a proportioning valve or residual pressure valve. Are you using the torino proportioning/distribution block that is mounted on the frame? I'd eliminate that from the system if you are because it was also designed for drums. Just replace it with a "T" for the front (Lelf side, right side, mc) and plumb the rears right to the master cylinder. That should give you a good "new" starting point.

Just trying to help you out on this because I have been going through the same thing. 
I am sure others that have gone to rear discs will chime in too.

Originally posted by Ron Earp Ron Earp wrote:

And on the timing curve, well, there might not be much I can do there. The motor has a hint of detonation on throttle tip in. I hope to eliminate it with softening the advance curve, but, when I went back to check my dizzy the installed springs were already the heaviest available and I remember putting them there a couple years back. I check cylinder compression on the motor when hot and we've got 235 psi cranking compression, which suggests a compression ratio at least 12.3:1, and probably higher. So there might have been a mistake made with the engine build process. 
I am no expert engine builder so I might not be the best on this subject but I will maybe help start things off for further discussion from some of the experts on here.

Softening the advance curve means you want the advance to come in later, correct?
Hmm. If you are getting ping on throttle tip in it sound like your initial advance might be to advanced. Also if you are running a vac advance and taking vacuum straight from the intake manifold you are going to be sitting really far in on your initial + MAP timing depending on the dizzy design. What does your timing light say when you spin it up not under load? Weights are also something that can change your curve probably in your favor. I doubt you have a 12.3:1 compression ratio. You would be having major problems if that was the case. I mean you would have to be running so for back on your timing all efficiency would go out the window completely. You really can't tell by taking a pressure reading on the compression stroke. The engine blueprint has to be analyzed and the calculations have to be done based on that. 

To get it prefect you are going to need a dyno but getting it close can be done with trial and error.
Hope some others can chime in on this as well.

Originally posted by Ron Earp Ron Earp wrote:

Other than that things are moving along. Last night we made all the AC lines using an AC line crimper, easy as pie. We've got short runs to the compressor, condendser, drier, and evaporator. The plan today is to pull a vacuum on the system and see if it will hold. If it does we'll charge it up and with any luck have some cold air. We need it down here in NC, it's hot already. 
AC!! your gona be livin in luxury. That's sweet.  Dude it has got to be hot down there. It's been freakin 90+* in Pittsburgh, PA these past few days.
-Billy Conturo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-April-2014 at 12:22PM
Any news on this?? This car is pretty much what made me get a 72, this car was my desk top background for about a year! Anyone know Ron?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-April-2014 at 12:35PM
Try looking into a different cam shaft to help reduce your dynamic compression.   Something with less LSA might help with maybe retarding the cam timing by a few degrees.   Its worth talking to an expert to help get your cam right given the static compression is a little high.   Bullet Cams usually has good advice...    I'm not sure what your LSA is now but your probably looking at something with a LSA of 106 to help bleed off some compression.    That prolly wont help at 6000rpm other than degreeing the cam and retarding the timing curve a bit.     

Its worth talking to a cam expert...they certainly can help without replacing the pistons and tearing down the motor.   That coupled with maybe installing thicker head gaskets and having the chambers CNCed would help...good luck.   I would love to hear a sound clip if you can capture it on this forum.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Montego01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-April-2014 at 1:23PM
Super super sharp! Congrats on your build!!!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-April-2014 at 6:12PM
Originally posted by Ron Earp Ron Earp wrote:

The cam that was in the engine we had to pull out and I ended up getting a cam from Cars by Carl that had more lift, maybe 10 degrees less duration, but a wider lobe separation.


that is some incredible cranking pressure! I didn't go back all the way to find the original build recipe but found that little notation above... which can easily explain how the Dynamic Compression Ratio leapfrogged over the limit

if the intended cam had longer duration it would not be able to produce as much DCR as the cam you have in it. the wider LSA compounds the same effect by reducing 'valve overlap' and increasing DCR

is running it on E85 an option?




Edited by Rockatansky - 17-April-2014 at 6:15PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Earp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2014 at 3:28AM
Well, just to provide a quick update on the car, I've been driving it over the past year and enjoying it quite a bit. Mainly around town, to work, to a couple of car shows, and sorting the little bugs that pop up when a new car hits the road. I'll have to get some new pictures up here shortly of the Ford stable.

The car has been doing fine. The quick ratio box really makes it seem smaller than it is, and the suspension changes with shocks and springs have turned it into a decent handling machine. It'll never been on par with say a modern sports car, but it corners flat, with minimal roll, and other than a tendancy to understeer she's pretty decent. 

All the problems I mentioned earlier have been solved - engine, I just feed it 100 octane out of our local pump and it delivers smooth effortless power. Amazing motor, will idle reasonably smoothly, but once the RPM his 2.5k in any gear but fourth it's an experience. Wide band shows we're safe on air fuel ratio and there isn't any pinging, so we're good there. AC is working, not quite as cold as I'd like but it is cool and with the windows up decent. Brakes with the SVO master don't have as high of a pedal as I'd want but they work well, lock up, and will smoke the tires down on a stop if needed.

One little problem I have tried to fix - the speedocable. Mine OEM two piece cable got burned on the header and the replacements I've ordered do not fit the back of the speedometer. Anyone have a part number and source for a cable that will fit? I'd take a used one at this point. 

More pics and I'll write more this afternoon.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2014 at 4:42AM
Ron good to hear, video would be nice of a burnout lol
As far as ac I'm gutting mine as we speak. Once I'm rebuilt I'll post.
In the speedo cable issue there were two types. If it's the piece that screws into the speed sensor, pioneer makes that cable. Heck it was the same cable that fit out 63 f100 cluster.
I'll try to find the part number but autozone had good pricing and availability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2014 at 6:11AM
Well, I lost my post I was typing up for the last ten minutes on my brakes. 

Aside from the long winded discussion on my CVPI 1999 front brakes, and stock 10x3 drums, what about going to a cobra mustang pedal and hydraboost? Or Wilwood for a brake pedal set up?




Edited by Eliteman76 - 20-June-2014 at 6:12AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2014 at 7:49AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Well, I lost my post I was typing up for the last ten minutes on my brakes. 

Aside from the long winded discussion on my CVPI 1999 front brakes, and stock 10x3 drums, what about going to a cobra mustang pedal and hydraboost? Or Wilwood for a brake pedal set up?


 
Yep web server errors, tried 3x to post what took a while to type, LOTS OF CUSS WORDS!
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Earp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2014 at 8:13AM
The Torino got a new stable mate over the winter, and the Lightning went off to a new home. Current batch of Fords is the 72 Torino, 13 Boss, 13 F150 Ecoboost, and the 98 Mustang Race car.









 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2015 at 9:39AM
Anyone in contact with Ron? No reply from pm
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