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1973 GTS - Street/Track

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unlovedford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-July-2011 at 2:48AM
Beautiful interior. I have always liked the Ginger, as our '72 Squire had that when we were young and the '72 Sport I stripped had it as well. Just a rich, uncommon color that is NICE. Even better when a person does the tasteful and functional mods as you have. Kudos, man.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mule323 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-July-2011 at 2:19PM
Absolutely beautiful work on the interior. Very, very nice. Congratulations!
             (Steve)
73 G.T.S. Fastback, 351C, C6
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2011 at 12:49AM
've since rebuilt the rear differential and put in 3.7 gears, 31 spline axles, and a Tru-trac carrier.   It really helped wake up the car.   

I've been stripping the undercoating in the wheel wells and installing a bedliner.   Turned out real nice.    



Also, fixed the only rust spot on the GTS.  Welded in a patch.






I also started the suspension:  I've been figuring out what to do on other threads.


I settled on (stock ride height):
front - I'm planning on trying a Moog 80098 748 lb/in springs.  Should install without cutting and only drop the front less than 1/4 in.   I'm also installing poly bushings and will try to mount a nascar style sway bar unless I can find a  1 1/8 " OEM front sway bar that will work.  I'm trying to keep it stock looking.

rear - I tried Hypercoil Double pig-tail springs (200lb).   I was disappointed to find that the pig-tail end is to small to fit in a Torino and had to send them back.   I will have springs made that are approx 200-225 lb range.   Stock springs (Moog CC801) are a bit to soft for my taste and I think the wagon spring (Moog CC803) are to firm at 305lbs/in.   


I installed a 7/8" rear sway bar.   Modified the OEM hardware because the U bolt setup looked pretty wimpy.  A buddy milled the old 1/4" bolts out of the rear housing brackets and offset milled holes for new 3/8" bolts that came with the kit.   We welded in the 3/8" bolts in the brackets.   Looks like OEM brackets, but for a bigger sway bar with the bigger 3/8" bolts.

Picture of the Addco sway bar kit vs the old 5/8 OEM rear bar.





Edited by BackInBlack - 23-October-2011 at 1:02AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-March-2012 at 12:10AM
I've recently moved and now getting back into the car...
 
I've been digging into the suspension, geometry, etc.  
 
Looked into lowering the car 2"+ 
FRONT: This caused the front cross member to be very low to the ground for a street car.   Also, If you have a flat tire that cross member might rest on teh ground. If you have 17/18" rim with 30's-40's series tires you might be ok.   Lowering the car 2" would require stock front suspension with the Fatman lowering spindles.  These spindles are essentially the Mustang spindles that works on Torinos.  I spoke with the Designer/Owner of Fatman Fabrications about this spindle.   He didn't have or wouldn't provide any bumpsteer data for those spindles on a Torino.   He would accept refunds to try out the spindle excluding shipping charges if I didn't like them.
 
REAR:  I believe it would require adj upper control arms to correct pinion angle.  I think the rear suspension would only need lowering springs but would require changing the upper control arms to realign the pinion angle.
 
Lowering the Car 1"
Front:  Only requires lowering springs and or coilovers.   After looking into springs and good quality shocks, the front costs (excluding ball joints, Poly bushing etc) would be $250 per side ($500 ish total)  This is the cost of a coil over setup.   If you want to lower the car and have good corner carver handling I believe the coil-over (eg QA1) setup would give you the best bang for the buck.  I believe that these cars need the 550lbs/in coil over spring rate.   (Takes to much to put in the mathl... angle of the shock,  length of arm, length of shock mnt to ball joint, etc etc.....)
 
Rear:  Simply install stock rate or add 10% per inch reduction in height to the spring rate.  Springs from Coil spring specialties are around $180-$200 for a set for the rear.   Eaton springs told me they dont have anything for the Torino other than the stock height spring (@220 lbs/in because I want to increase the rear rate slightly to 210-220 range).  
 
Stock ride height
Front:  Moog CPVI spring many have tried on in this forum
Rear:  Stock spring or up the rate slightly from Eaton or Coil Spring specialties
 
I also looked into putting a splined front sway bar on the car.   I dont believe you can use the stock location.   The bar will interfere with teh front pulleys of the engine.   I believe it will need to be lowered and pulled backward a few inches to set under the engine balancer.  This causes other interferance problems with teh front trailing links to the lower control arms.   Mounting the bar back looks like it would interfere with the trailing links.   It appears to use this type of sway bar the lower control arm will have to be changed to allow removing the trailing arm link.   The more I look at this front suspension the more it reminds me of a Gen 2 Camaro/firebird.   I'm wondering if you can weld mounting brackets to the frame and use a lower control arm for the mid-70's Camaro.   This would allow removing the trailing link and provide the clearance needed for a splined sway bar.
 
Wheels/Tires....
Common concensus on other threads say 10" wide in the rear 5" backspace...something similar for the front.   The more I look at the front...I'm coming to the conclusion that the most wheel you can put on the front is a 9" wheel with 5.5" backspace or 8" wheel with 5" backspace (not for clearance reasons but for steering geometry reasons).   The reason I say this is because of the squib radius of the steering geometry.  (I' believe that the correct term...)  Its the distance from the face of the spindle to the outer wheel lip.   For example, a stock wheel is 6" wheel with 4.25" bs.   That is bs/width = 3.75/6" or 4.25/7" ~ 0.6-0.65 approx. ratio range. So the wider the wheel the more BS you must put on it to keep close to this ratio.   If you go to far the front will feel like you have bumpsteer issues or the front will track into ruts in the road.   So this means for a 9" wheel in the front you will need probably no less than 5.5 to  6" BS...then the question is ..."Is there enough clearance in the front for 6" BS?"   If not then a 8" wheel with 5 to  5.5" bs...
 
I'm probably gonna use a 9" wheel in the front with at least 5.5" bs.  I will have to check clearance for a 6" backspace.   So to use 255-275 tire in teh front (my goal) you need 9" wheel ...to have it steer like stock the BS will need 5.5+"....next step is to figure out if it will have enough clearance.
 
Disclaimer...I'm not a chassis expert...if you see a flaw in my madness...I can take it   ;-)

 


Edited by BackInBlack - 13-April-2012 at 5:40AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-March-2012 at 12:17AM
nice write up, it will help other members make their decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-March-2012 at 1:09AM
Very nice post, chock full of great information.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2012 at 11:04AM
Thanks for the feedback...

If you want to keep the stock ride height I found some other possible springs for the rear.   I'm just not sure if the pigtail size will accomodate the torino spring perch.

Spring # Inside Dia Bar Dia Install Height Load rate (lbs) Spring Rate (Lbs/in.) Free Height Ends Type Loaded Height
5391 5.57 0.59 9 909 142 15.4 PP 9.05
CC253 3.86 0.58 11 492 221 13.25 PP 9.09
CC805 5.43 0.64 9.75 770 187 14 PP 9.13
80108 5.73 0.61 9 950 169 14.5 PP 9.13
5375 5.57 0.59 9 933 137 15.82 PP 9.25
CC627 5.56 0.59 10.25 560 161 14.88 PP 9.26
5415 5.57 0.61 9 950 170 14.6 PP 9.26
5041 5.57 0.59 10 810 141.6 15.72 PP 9.36
CC665 4.33 0.64 11.5 371 252 13.06 PP 9.39
5381 5.55 0.61 9 972 169 14.76 PP 9.39
CC849 5.05 0.63 13 340.5 160.5 15.2 PP 9.56
8537 5.66 0.61 10 850 175 14.77 PP 9.58
5557 5.57 0.56 10 848 125.5 16.76 PP 9.61
CC507 5.53 0.61 10 849 158 15.38 PP 9.65
5387 5.57 0.61 8.5 1089 157 15.42 PP 9.66
CC865 4.54 0.59 11.5 620 163 15.25 PP 9.69
6381 5.53 0.66 9 1062 198 14.34 PP 9.73 8.976363636
CC801 5.43 0.64 9.75 870 192 14.5 PP 9.75
8307 5.66 0.61 9.75 907 158 15.49 PP 9.76
8161 5.53 0.59 10 875 130 16.73 PP 9.82
8805 5.05 0.56 12.13 650 122 17.19 PP 9.84
CC667 4.33 0.64 11.5 475 271 13.28 PP 9.85
CC841 4.3 0.53 14 482 101 18.69 PP 9.86
CC625 5.53 0.66 10 850 222 14 PP 9.86
8531 5.66 0.63 9.75 947 183 14.94 PP 9.97

Moog 6381 is a constant rate, double pig tail spring, a little stiffer than OEM at 198 lbs/in,   Calculating the ride height puts it right about stock height.   You get a stiffer spring, constant rate...so you dont get that spongy feel.   I'm just not sure if the pigtail diameter is the same as the CC801.   It has the same inside diameter with the wire size slightly larger.

Just FYI for those interested in a stiffer rear spring without going to those station wagon springs.

John



Edited by BackInBlack - 18-March-2012 at 11:30AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2012 at 9:25AM
I've been looking at installing a splined front sway bar.   I just bought a broom handle and cut it down to 37 1/2" and wedged it up in place.  The bar sits right below the balancer.   When I measure from the bottom of the balancer to the top of the broom stick (stick sitting on the underside of the frame rail) I measure 7/8".  So with bushings I expect to have about 1 1/4" clearance between the balancer and the sway bar.   This seems a bit close.

Has anyone tried a splined sway bar on this forum?  I searched and can't find any threads.  I must be the only crazy one trying this.   I found piller bearing blocks to use in place of the bushings.  This will sit the bar a little lower providing clearance.

Normally you would see a tube welded in place where the bar sits inside with bearing/bushings on the ends.   I dont think this traditional way will work on these Torinos not without extensive changes.   It would require removing the trailing links (rods) from the front support to the lower control arm and welding lower control arm brackets...perhaps replacing the lower control arm with a GM A-body aftermarket piece.

I think the splined bar might work...but I'm not sure how much clearance I should keep between the balancer and the bar.   The stock sway bar is bent to clear the radiator hose, trans cooler lines and overall front of the engine.

Any feedback regarding this subject would be helpful...

Looking at this more....it looks like it won't work.   The bar simply hits the balancer.   If you lower the bar for clearance it interferes with the trailing link to the lower control arm.
ARGGGHHH!!!!
John


Edited by BackInBlack - 22-March-2012 at 11:07AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2012 at 11:10AM
I'd have been more apt to try one of the large aftermarket bars from a 68-72 Chevelle
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2012 at 11:54AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2012 at 11:57AM
Thats an idea...
They are very similar:
Frame width
arm length
etc
mmm

Addco has a 1 1/8" bar, but I think I will need a 1 1/2" bar for the setup I want.

A splined bar would be nice...gives you adjustability to tune it, easily change bars instead of springs.   I'm probably over engineering this ;-)
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2012 at 12:26PM
A company does make a splined bar with a dip..


But now you're talking real money, in my opinion.

Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2012 at 10:18PM
I was looking at buying older used race parts...
I figured it would cost me about 200-250 to get the parts together.   This is about the same price as a Addco aftermarket bar kit. 
 
Thanks for that link...I'll keep looking.
 
Front shock specs from measuring (measured inside the spring from teh top of the shock mount to the centerline of the bottom mounting tabs):
extended:  approx 15"
compressed:  approx 10.5" (est)
stationary at rest:  approx 12.5"
 
Looking at coil over kits ; it appears that a coilover kit for a 67 chevelle will fit these torinos
or from a 55-57 chevy
 
For the rear:
Extended Length (in) 20.200 in.
Collapsed Length (in) 13.200 in.
 
It seems that these Torinos have more in common with the 67-69 Chevelle than the 70+ Chevelle in regard to the front suspension.


Edited by BackInBlack - 23-March-2012 at 12:21AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2012 at 3:54AM
For the splined swaybar, check out the Nascar section on Ebay.  There are also listings for bushings, arms, etc. 
You could also get another 1" clearance by using an aluminum CVF crank pulley.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2012 at 4:22AM
Excellent, Thanks!   I suspect that I will have to reduce the pulley/balancer diameter for clearance.
 
I've been digging through websites for used racing parts.   I just bought a 1 3/8" splined bar 1 1/4" ends ($100).   I'm determined to make this work.   I have found pillow blocks ranging from 15-40 ea.   Now I need to find the arms.   I want to get the bar on and then mock up with cardboard the arms to figure out exactly the angle I will need to clear everything.
 
The 1 1/4" ends help me to keep it as "low profile" as possible for clearance.   This should allow me to clear everything...maybe allow me to shim the bar down a little for more balancer clearance.
 
I changed my mind....I'm going to lower the car 1" using the springs.   This should still keep it "streetable".


Edited by BackInBlack - 23-March-2012 at 4:23AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2012 at 4:54AM
64-67 and 68-72 are the GM A body crossover points, that may help your search.
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2012 at 5:09AM
Ok thanks....then the 64-67 must the the closest.   I was looking at 67 suspension parts for comparison.   The 68+  (I was looking at 72 chevelle parts) have shorter springs/shocks, etc. vs the 67 chevelle.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-July-2012 at 7:31AM
Just finished upgrading the steering box to a Saginaw unit with 10to1 quick ratio.   

Posted the updates on this link.

Now I'm making some brackets to replace the sliding brackets that hold the front bumper on.   I'm setting the bumper back about 4" to clean up the look.   The replacement brackets will be fabricated to simply be a bolt in replacement.   After I finish the brackets then I find someone to help cut the bumper down and fit it tighter to the body.   

I'm currently looking for a 72 GTS hood to graft a 72 hood scoop onto my 73 hood.   Trying to make this 73 look the way Ford should have made it.  I may also see about getting the rear bumper to fit tighter to the body as well.   

When I'm done with the bumpers and hood scoop...it will be time to get things ready for paint.   

Suspension:   Aside from painting; I'm getting ready to do some suspension work.   I'm going to lower the car 1".   I believe I have figure out how to improve the front stock suspension geometry.   I'll post more details when I get it ironed out.

-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-July-2012 at 7:37AM
It ought to look good with the bumpers tucked in. I agree Ford should have made them that way.
Alex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-July-2012 at 7:43AM
The car with the front bumper off...

I'm going to replace the radiator mounts while the bumper is off...much better access to it.



My helper...keeps the birds at bay



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