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1973 GTS - Street/Track

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M Casey Stock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Casey Stock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-March-2017 at 1:50AM
Lots of cool mods going on here, and good information posts with part numbers. I'm sure I will be referring back when I start doing engine bay upgrades to mine. Excellent work! Thumbs Up

1975 Gran Torino, Copperhead

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/75-gran-torino-soft-restoration-copper-head_topic15137_post169060.html?KW=#169060
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2017 at 2:20AM
I could use some help with some wiring.  I've searched the forum and looked at the wiring schematics 

I can't locate where the brown wire with yellow dots on the electric choke harness goes.  (Has a 2 pin female connector on engine harness)

Also, on the AC selenoid/clutch harness there is a white with black stripe wire.  What is that for...where does it go?   (Has a 3 pin mail connector with 2 wires on the engine harness)

See the pic...tape 




Edit:  I found the electric choke in the schematics and it looks like the previous owner wired this incorrectly.  The schematics show that the white wire with black stripe on the AC harness is actually suppose to be the electric choke.   Can someone please confirm this?  Thanks..



Edited by BackInBlack - 21-May-2017 at 2:28AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2017 at 7:38AM
Finished the battery relocation.  Found the metal  floor plates on ebay but partially rusted out.  Had to patch/weld them back up and installed to cover the battery cable.  Worked out nicely.






Regarding the previous post...the nearest thing I can figure on those two unused wires in my engine harness is
White/black stripe = electric choke
brown yellow dots = Carb/emissions idle selenoid

I'm hoping someone in the forum can confirm what these two wires are for...


Edited by BackInBlack - 22-May-2017 at 7:39AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2017 at 11:34AM
Ya. That sounds right for the wiring. That electric choke wire should come from the alternator voltage regulator. The yellow black wire is probably an emissions thing. I got rid of it but can't for the life of me remember what was feeding it. There really isn't much in the way of electronic control for engine functions.

Edited by Billy C - 22-May-2017 at 11:35AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2017 at 1:56AM
Ok Thanks!   I replaced the old voltage regulator and alternator with a 1 wire setup alternator.  I may have to trace that wire down to see where it goes.  I'm more concerned with what the previous owner did with the wiring.  

I would like to reuse the electric choke wire rather than "re-purpose" a different wire for that function.  It appears that the previous owner did some "re-purposing" in the wiring harness in a few places.   I need to correct/fix some of the wiring.  


Edited by BackInBlack - 23-May-2017 at 4:25AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2017 at 11:53AM
Thanks again Billy.   I traced the white wire with the black stripe down to the unconnected end by the selenoid where it connects to the alternator.   The was no fuse in this connection and was a direct connect to the alternator/regulator 12V output.   I tried to tie it to the IGN on signal that is at the selenoid; when the choke was connected it pulled it to 4-5V which means this is tied to the IGN resistor wire.   

The old choke was connected to a Red wire with yellow dots...which is part of the harness shown above on the bottom.  2 wires  one Brown with yellow dots and Red with yellow dots.   

Any idea where these used to go?   I have no idea what they connected to originally.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2017 at 3:59PM
Looks great John.  Cool idea to use the set of driver's side floor plates to cover up the battery wire.  Very clean install.
 
Are you sure your car originally had a factory electric choke? 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2017 at 4:14PM
I think so...but not sure.   It has the wiring for it.  White wire/black stripe that runs from the alternator/regulator through the harness where someone cut it near the carburator and put a crimp connector on the end to terminate it.

I've traced all the connections to the schematics except 1 engine harness.   Its a 2pin harness that pops through the firewall closest to the the 2 block connectors.   It has a Brown wire with green spots and a red wire with green spots.  It appears to be routed with the bundle to the engine.   The Red/gr wire is 12V on when the key is turned on.  The previous owner hacked the electric choke connection to this wire. 

the Red/gr wire can drive the choke fine...but I want to make sure the circuit was done correctly while I have everything torn apart.   I have no idea what these two wires were used for orginally.   I can't find them in the 73 torino schematics I found on our forum.  

The harness is the bottom one in the picture in the previous posting.


Edited by BackInBlack - 23-May-2017 at 4:16PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2017 at 3:03AM
I traced the red wire with green spots to the fuse box where it connects directly to 12 ignition on power.  Both wires (Brown wire with green spots and a red wire with green spots) then run through the dash harness to a little red box.   I think its a defrost relay?   I have no idea what this box is for...





I'm wondering if these wires control a valve or something with the AC system for defrost???   EGR valve control??
Any help would be greatly appreciated figuring out what these wires originally controlled in the engine compartment.



Edited by BackInBlack - 24-May-2017 at 4:01AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2017 at 9:13AM
defroster relay.
I cheated and ran a google search on the D3AF-9E447 number.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2017 at 9:25AM
Yeah thats what I found as well, but can't figure out what the relay is switching.   What is on the end of the wire that the relay is switching on/off.

Is this a heater element?   Its not the air "defrost" because that is controlled by cable and a baffle door in the air handler under the dash.

So its basically switching 12V on the red wire to the brown wire.   I follow those wires through the harness...through the firewall...then it ends...someone cut off the ends and connected teh ignition switched 12v red wire to my electric choke instead of using the correct wire for the electric choke that was already in the harness.

What did those two wires connect to under the hood?

I should have phrased the question differently...sorry bout that.


Edited by BackInBlack - 24-May-2017 at 9:26AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2017 at 9:55AM
That's not a defroster relay.  At first I thought it was part of Ford's Electronic Spark control system, as seen here:
 
 
But the part numbers aren't the same.  I have a copy of my Fords Parts Catalog on my laptop and it shows it as an EGR control switch assembly.  I do see several of these are listed as defroster relays on ebay, but I am pretty certain they are incorrect. My car is a factory defrost car and that is not the defroster relay.  My guess is those under hood wires went to control the various vacuum switches related to the EGR system.  I don't have a '73, but from what I can recall, they had a TON of crap under the hood for the EGR and other emission related stuff.  I was just helping Chris with his '73 and I couldn't believe how much extra emissions stuff his car had versus my '72.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2017 at 11:16AM
I was thinking the same thing...but I can't confirm my suspicions.   I found a circuit on a schematic for 73 that  shows an "EGR controller" which then connects to a "EGR Selenoid"  The schematic doesn't reference a part number so I can't confirm that this is the correct schematic for that part.   

I'm at a loss here...

Meanwhile I'm doing what you did Vince....adding a relay and a fuse to drive the correct wire for the electric choke.   I have to add this since there is no longer a ignition switched connection from the old voltage regulator...since replacing the alternator with a new "one wire" part.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2017 at 1:14PM
John, I am 100% sure that is an EGR control assembly.  The part number stamped on it is what I found in the Ford Parts catalog and it lists it as a EGR control assembly. 
I found the 1973 wiring diagram on the website. 
 
 
If you look at page 19, this appears to be the correct wiring for under the hood of your car.  I believe the brown wire with "green" spots, is actually the brown with yellow, and the other is red with yellow.  The brown wire connects to the EGR solenoid, which would have looked something like this:
 
 
The red wire looks like it goes from the fuse box to the Controller, but there is a splice with the brown wire.  This appears to power the EGR controller, and is as you've discovered a switched 12 volt source.  
 
Based on what you've posted, and that wiring diagram, I am very certain the wires you discovered are for that circuit.  My guess is that a previous owner ditched the EGR solenoids and other parts.  They added an electric choke and decided to use that EGR controller red wire as the power source. I'd guess your car never had the black and white wire for the choke originally, otherwise why would someone make a new one?
 
I did see on this diagram for 1973 that there is an electric choke that runs off the voltage regulator.  I am not sure if all 1973 Torino's got this or not.  IIRC, there is no electric choke on the 1972 wiring diagram.
 
Are you planning on removing this wiring, or were you just trying to figure out what it was for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2017 at 12:07AM
I was trying to figure out what that wiring was for...

I was concerned that the previous owner did some questionable wiring or repair.  I found some other bad repairs in the harness that I had to correct.  

 My 73 wiring had the electric choke wire in the harness (white/black stripe).   the previous owner hacked off the electric choke wire at the carburetor and then wired the EGR wire to drive the electric choke.   I decided to add another relay to my relay block (controls the 2 speed mark8 fan) and a fuse to drive the electric choke.  This is the correct way to fix this circuit since I converted to a 1 wire  alternator.

I think I will remove that EGR harness and install a plug on the firewall.   Havent decided yet...maybe its a good circuit to drive a new MSD 6AL ignition control as the Ignition on signal... Wink

Thanks everyone for your help with this problem...owe you a beer Smile


Edited by BackInBlack - 25-May-2017 at 12:12AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2017 at 3:27PM
FWIW, I checked the 1972 wiring diagram now that I back home access.  There is no electric choke and the black and white wire is still there.  It goes from the regulator to the alternator.  The 1973 diagram is exactly the same except that it has the choke wire spliced of the black and white wire to feed the choke.
I am glad you got it all sorted out.  It sucks fixing other people botched work.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-August-2017 at 3:48AM
I removed that EGR harness and used the hole in the firewall for MSD box control wiring such as the burnout rev limiter, force ignition retard, etc. 

Project update: 
Completed mounting serpentine belt system on the 351C (from CVF racing).  Works great!   Had some fitment issues where the AC compressor isn't quite aligned center with the belt idler pulley and the spring tensioner pulley had to be shimmed 0.25" to align properly.   Overall it was very easy to install and clears the hood; other V belt systems I tried the AC compressor would hit the hood.  Overall its a very good quality kit and I would recommend it.

http://www.cvfracing.com/Default.asp

First time starting after all the changes:





The only negative is that this kit was based on a LS setup where the AC and alternator swapped sides.  This forced me to rewire the harness and re-wrap it.  Not overly difficult but was more of an annoyance and took a lot of time to figure out how to do it and keep it clean OEM looking (aside from the big red wire for the relocated battery).  It was worth it in the end because their kit was less expensive than the March setup and the accessories swapping sides actually helps clean up the AC compressor plumbing.   With all that wire harness changes and re-wrapping I went ahead and added a MSD box since I didn't want to cut it open and re-wrap it again later.





Replaced the kit power steering reservoir with a PSC unit because their reservoir was lacking a 2nd return for hydroboost and it was to tall with all the adapters and fittings to fit under the hood.  Hydroboost is finally done and working perfectly.   Its more sensitive and has more boost than the vacuum system.  I may reduce the diameter of the master cylinder when I convert to rear disc brakes.




It was a real headache to find a good place to mount the power steering reservoir.  I couldn't get it to fit anywhere other than the radiator support.  Basically you have to keep it above the power steering pump, forward of the pump.   Tried to mount it on the engine, fabbed my own bracket out of plate aluminum.  Just couldn't get it to fit properly. 






Also with Hydroboost I was working with Modern Driveline on a clutch pedal kit for our Torinos.   I was able to install a clutch master cylinder right next to the hydroboost and keep the correct pedal geometry.  (Thanks to Clint, Andy, Aquartlow, and a few others for help and advice sorting this out including Paul at Modern Driveline)

http://moderndriveline.com/


Now I'm in the middle of swapping out the C6 with a Tremec 5 speed.  I keep stripping the underside and repainting the bottom of the car as I go to keep it all clean.  One of the new issues that cropped up with this is the Hooker headers that are on the car.  I'm having to replace them because the sit to low to the ground.  I'm installing a set of FPA headers that provide better clearance for when I lower it.

http://www.fordpowertrain.com/fpaindex/headers2.htm





My buddy standing guard while I drop the transmission...




Note:  I will be selling some of the original parts off the cleveland and the old headers soon for those interested.   (original alternator with voltage regulator, water pump, new ford 1 wire 140 amp alternator with pulley, Lares saginaw PS pump for hydroboost with pulley (unused reman), original fan + shroud,  Hooker comp headers with ceramic finish, prolly more that I can't remember)   I'll try to find where to post on our forum first before trying ebay.



Edited by BackInBlack - 01-August-2017 at 4:19AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-August-2017 at 3:58PM
Looking good John!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-August-2017 at 4:43PM
nice work! Big smile
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2017 at 9:14AM
Back to some wiring...need some help sorting out the neutral safety switch and reverse lights for the Tremec TKO 5 speed transmission swap.  


I have a Q-code auto with the floor shifter.   I traced the wiring harness for some of the neutral safety switch wiring and reverse light wiring.   This picture shows the floor shifter with the 3 connectors.   The small connector is for the indicator lamp in the shifter.   The 4 wire black connector is as follows
1 White/purple stripe (+12V)
2 Red/blue stripe
3 Black/red stripe
4 Red/blue stripe

Black with red stripe is for the reverse lights.  The switch in the shifter connects white/purple stripe to the black with red stripe only when in reverse.  I applied 12V to the black/red stripe and the reverse lights turn on.   Easy to fix the wiring for reverse lights.   

However, not as easy to trace the neutral safety circuit.  The shifter switch connects the Red/blue stripe to the other Red/blue stripe while in ParK and Neutral only...clearly this is the ignition ON/OFF.   Where does this wire go to control the ignition...back to the key then to the coil???



Lastly there is the BLUE connector with 2 wires as follows:
1 Green
2 Purple/blue dots
These 2 wires are disconnected during Park and shorted to each other for all other shifter positions.   What is this connector for?   


Edited by BackInBlack - 26-August-2017 at 9:18AM
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