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1978 302

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weaverT1971 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 12:15AM
1978 block, not sure about the heads though. Conventional rear end with 3.00 gears
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 10:20AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

it is hard to beat Factory Ford Quality
 
first thing I would do is ID what you have there already, if it runs kinda great like you're describing you may already have GT40/P heads on that motor? 1978 was a long time ago, plenty of time to be overhauled & hopped up before you got it
 
you could easily $pend away & not come out with a significant improvement, seen it plenty of times a guy tears down a great running engine because 'it wasn't built enough' only to put together an unhappy combo that needs to be re-worked again
 
maybe just RDI (remove, dis-assemble & inspect) the engine you have, figure out what about it makes it work as well as it does, re-assemble & reseal before jumping the shark
 
what if you just did your EFI on that engine as-is?
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 10:44AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

it is hard to beat Factory Ford Quality
 
first thing I would do is ID what you have there already, if it runs kinda great like you're describing you may already have GT40/P heads on that motor? 1978 was a long time ago, plenty of time to be overhauled & hopped up before you got it
 
you could easily $pend away & not come out with a significant improvement, seen it plenty of times a guy tears down a great running engine because 'it wasn't built enough' only to put together an unhappy combo that needs to be re-worked again
 
maybe just RDI (remove, dis-assemble & inspect) the engine you have, figure out what about it makes it work as well as it does, re-assemble & reseal before jumping the shark
 
what if you just did your EFI on that engine as-is?
 
Yes I agree with you because the engine runs very good. EFI for that isn't very much but I kina wanted the added HP too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 11:12AM
without pulling the valve covers yet...the heads have 10 stamped on the front of them. On the back side towards the fire wall on the passenger side flange is a number 2
 
Just found out the 2 stands for a 2 barrel carb...not cool


Edited by weaverT1971 - 18-August-2014 at 1:49PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 2:44PM
Yeah, but... what heads are they. 302s were 2 bbl only thru most of their production, so would only have a (maybe) different head for a year (1968). Mustang GT with a 4bbl (83-85) didn't get special heads. 86 gt (EFI) used E6 passenger heads, 87-up used E7 truck heads until gt-40 and derivatives in the mid 90s.
289 heads (2bbl or 4 bbl) had heads with the same valves and combustion chamber, which was a smaller combustion chamber than later 302 heads, andeven the hi-po was mostly carb, cam, exhaust improvements (and adjustable rockers)
In short, there are no REALLY bad 302 heads, they are mostly the same.




Edited by Big Bird - 18-August-2014 at 2:47PM
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 3:24PM
I've always wondered since we're on the discussion of heads....why do people get 3 angle valve jobs and port and polish when you get aluminum heads that have bigger ports, are lighter and are better performers? Is it cheaper to port and polish? I guess what I'm asking is if aluminum heads are so good then why doesn't everyone just throw their old cast irons out and buy aluminum?

Edited by weaverT1971 - 18-August-2014 at 3:31PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 6:08PM
well there could be an entire forum devoted to just this subject!!!! and probably just as many opinions as there are heads out there!!!! but basically cast iron production heads are mass produced for new vehicles, that are sold to ordinary people (they work -who cares- they got your money another car sold) then along come us "hotrodders" who think how can we make this better! Thumbs Up so somebody sees an area that can be improved, then someone else finds a way to improve on that! and when there isn't enough to improve on then somebody else says we'll make our own line from scratch and include all those plus more, hence the "aftermarket" parts are born! Clap which give us "car guys" OPTIONS!!! to be able to custom taylor things just the way we want to!!!

 so i'll leave you guys with my most famous quote that i'm known for always saying--- "LIFE'S TOO SHORT, TO DRIVE STOCK"!!! Wink
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 11:17PM
And or crap john
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 1:42AM
I have a set of 78 model 302 heads in storage. They have been mildly reworked, screw-in studs. Tried selling them and was told that they were the worst SBF heads ever made. Tried getting $50 for them, no bites. I have a 1968 302/4Bbl engine with the factory 4V heads. Not much difference, I'll bet between 2V and 4V heads back then. In fact, a popular upgrade was to bolt on a set of 351W 4V heads that had been milled to keep the compression up. In short, a mid-70's basically stock 302 is just a reliable engine, but not a powerhouse. Newer is better.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 9:55AM
78-up 302 and 351 use the same heads (with bigger bolt holes on the 351)  until the end of carbueration.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 10:00AM
The 1969 351W 4V heads were great heads that would greatly increase the 302's breathing. But, to get the full effect, they needed to be slightly milled or run on a block with higher compression.

I was not aware of the '78 - up versions being the same. No demand here for them. CL has some great deals, as this is Chevrolet country, not Ford. Great for buying, sucks for selling.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 10:03AM
289 heads, 2 bbl or 4 bbl. smaller combustion chambers and decent ports. Like the 1969 351 heads, they will need hardened valve seats, eventually. That and a good cam/intake/exhaust.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordpower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 10:35AM
Some people just think its cool to do the iron heads.My 302 that does not run has 1974 falcon heads and block.I know ford did not make a falcon in 74 but all markings state 74 falcon. The prev. owner had the heads redone 2.0 stainless chev val. drilled for 1.6 roller rockers It now has we believe a crack in the right exhaust seat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2014 at 12:23PM
If I choose to go with the Edelbrock kit....How hard is it to install? Honestly it doesn't look very hard at. I actually have worked on cars a lot but it's been mostly body work, paint, tune ups, brakes, some front end work stuff like that. The thing that really scare me is degreeing the cam the right way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2014 at 12:47PM
if you can do all that other stuff , then you can do this! i just set all of mine using the "o" degree mark on adjustable timing sets. but using a degree wheel and checking your true TDC is not a bad idea since someone may have mixed and matched different parts on your engine???
probably the hardest part is lifting the cam up and through each cam bearing (find a 6" bolt that threads into the end of the cam, to use as a "handle")


Edited by californiajohnny - 20-August-2014 at 12:48PM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2014 at 12:52PM
The hardest part will be putting the timing cover back on (if you do the work w/engine in car). Other then that, simple stuff.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2014 at 1:40PM
Thanks you guys, There's so much experience and knowledge on this forum it's awesome!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2014 at 1:13AM
My next question is about headers....the car has a brand-new exhaust system on it with flow masters. But it has the stock exhaust manifolds on it. If I'm doing this upgrade I mise well through headers on there too. But, I don't really want to have to modify the exhaust system so it looks like I would have to get shorty headers instead of full length headers. Is there a shorty that would be the same length as the stocks that with just bolt on to the down pipes with out modification?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2014 at 1:46AM
The passenger side exhaust manifold is probably going to be shorter than the passenger side shorty headers that you will find and it has a longer down pipe than the driver side.
 
The drivers side exhaust manifold is a little bit longer (it has a shorter down pipe), but i believe you will still have to modify the down pipe on that side also.
 
Unless they make direct replacement headers. In the link below you can see many pictures of the different shorty headers that are available for your car/engine combination and you can compare them to yours.
 
Maybe one of the other members will know of an exact brand of shorty headers that are a direct bolt on replacement.
 
To see many of the shorty headers available for your car/engine combination Click Here.

Edited by dave302 - 21-August-2014 at 2:15AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2014 at 1:09PM
i went with the jba 351w headers on my car fit well, excellent quality, not cheap, but since you have a 302, the 302 ones were quite a bit less money. a local exhaust shop should be able to just make a short head pipe to weld onto your existing system as long as it's in good shape.
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2014 at 2:46PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

i went with the jba 351w headers on my car fit well, excellent quality, not cheap, but since you have a 302, the 302 ones were quite a bit less money. a local exhaust shop should be able to just make a short head pipe to weld onto your existing system as long as it's in good shape.
Cool thanks. The whole exhaust system from the manifolds back is brand new stainless.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2014 at 2:58PM
nice! don't try to use the 351w headers on your 302 they are close to the tranny bellhousing on the passenger side, the 302 is narrower at the head (351w taller wider block- so their heads are farther away)
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2014 at 4:19PM
80s-90 Mustang GT factory headers fit a Torino with no issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-August-2014 at 2:34AM
I have a set of those "Shorties" for sale cheap.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-August-2014 at 2:56AM
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

I have a set of those "Shorties" for sale cheap.


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