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1979 Ford Thunderbird

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T-Bird_79 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T-Bird_79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-November-2017 at 9:22AM
So, a little update.

Finally managed to measure oil and compression pressure. Good news is that oil pressure cold at idle is 44 psi, at medium RPM is 58 psi, when hot drops to 29 psi at idle and to 45 psi at RPM. I think that is acceptable? Bad news is that compression pressure is 58 psi to 73 psi, no difference cold or hot. Tried to add oil in cylinders and remeasure. With oil compression pressure jumped to 132-147 psi. Most likely this means worn/ seized/ broken piston rings, in worst case worn cylinders/ pistons?Cry

So the plan for now is to get all missing ignition parts, carburettor, install this all on engine, restore ignition wiring and check, that it all works. After that, I will take off front clip, because I have to repair rusted radiator support, there's no chance I can pass technical control with so badly rusted support and without front end it will be much easier to pull the engine and transmission.

Made one last test drive, as expected transmission didn't shift at all without rod, that connects carburettor to transmission, but anyway it was a fantastic feel to drive this car: V8 sound (thanks to almost non existent exhaust Thumbs Up), steering that is so light, that it almost feels like wheels are not connected to steering wheel and the feel how the car floats over the bumps.


Yes, that's a high-tech temporary fuel tank in front of left headlight!Big smile

So, after driving around, finally took off the intake, to see is there flat or roller lifters.



Turned out that there is roller lifters. Found a part/ casting number on intake and Google says it's from a '79 Ford Mustang. So there's a question: is this intake usable? I personally like the fact, that it's aluminum and not cast iron. One strange thing I noticed is that the intake ports in heads are much larger than those on intake. Is this OK? Will this work?



Took off valve covers and noticed some differences on heads too: one head has studs for rockers, on other head there's a bolts. Does this mean, that one head was replaced with the not exactly matching head? Unfortunately I couldn't find any part numbers on heads, maybe I didn't look at the right places?



Another good news is that the car is starting to repair itself (like a Christine Shocked): took off the instrument cluster just to see what's with the dash wiring, put it back on (did no repairs, just put it back), connected back battery, switched ON ignition and wipers parked! Tried to switch them on and they work! Seems, that only intermittent feature don't work, but otherwise there are both speeds and after switching off they park in their place. After so many years I thought, that they MUST be totally rusted and stuck. After starting the engine, noticed, that the oil pressure gauge is working, and after heating up, a temperature gauge too. And a most miraculous thing is, that the ignition switch had repaired itself too, and now the car can be started without jumping wires.Clap

Thanks for reading!



Edited by T-Bird_79 - 12-November-2017 at 9:26AM
Andris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-November-2017 at 3:14PM
hmm, probably was a bad connection in the wiring, when you plugged it back in it scraped a new connection? oil pressure is ok but compression sounds real low! is it low on all cylinders? or just a couple next to each other??
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T-Bird_79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-November-2017 at 10:26PM
Compression is low on all cylinders, so I think this is not a head gaskets related case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-November-2017 at 2:27AM
What are the casting numbers on the heads and block?  It sounds like the engine might be pieced together from multiple engines.  I am assuming Ford V8 parts aren't common in your area, so maybe that's why you ended parts from multiple engines.
It sounds like you might need to a total tear down on the engine, and possibly rebuild.  Or I guess you could try to find another small block Ford to replace it with (if that's possible in you area?).  I am sure the members here could help you out if you try to teardown and rebuild if you decided to go that route.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T-Bird_79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-November-2017 at 8:19AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

What are the casting numbers on the heads and block?  It sounds like the engine might be pieced together from multiple engines.  I am assuming Ford V8 parts aren't common in your area, so maybe that's why you ended parts from multiple engines.
It sounds like you might need to a total tear down on the engine, and possibly rebuild.  Or I guess you could try to find another small block Ford to replace it with (if that's possible in you area?).  I am sure the members here could help you out if you try to teardown and rebuild if you decided to go that route.

Next time in garage I will try to find numbers on block and heads. Now it seems, that it's an EFI engine, which has been "modified" to accept carb and mechanical fuel pump.
Most likely I will try to repair the existing engine, because, I am afraid, even if I could find another engine here, it will be the same late model type in unknown condition.
There's no hurry, so I will move further step by step: for now I'm waiting for correct ignition and fuel system parts (thanks to forum membersThumbs Up), now, when i know, that it's a roller motor, I can order a correct distributor. When I will have all these parts, I want to check, that everything works together and then proceed to removing and disassembling of the engine.
Andris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-November-2017 at 11:50AM
Your rockers all look like pedestal mounts. It could be that someone lost a set of the bolts and just used studs. I don't see a "E6" or "E7" on either head, and based on the intake, I would guess you have a 1985 CFI engine. CFI used an aluminum intake that a 2BBL carb will bolt up to. Some/Many 1985 engines still had the Mechanical fuel pump mounting provisions with a block-off plate. If it was from an 1985 mustang with manual trans, it would have a mechanical fuel pump, but would have a 4BBL carb/intake and a Duraspark distributor.
As far as port size mismatch, it may not be as bad as you think. Ports are at different angles when looking at the engine and manifold, and they look different. Try putting the intake gaskets up to the ports and line them up with the bolt holes. If they are different, you need intake gaskets that fit the BIGGER opening or you will have a vacuum leak.
Very important question:
Did you check/record your firing order before taking everything apart?
H.O. cams use a different firing order than non-H.O. Both were used in roller cam engines.
Get that wrong, and the engine will not run correctly.


Edited by Big Bird - 13-November-2017 at 11:53AM
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-November-2017 at 12:00PM
The distributor you will need for that engine the way it sits is one for a 1985 Mustang GT with Manual transmission. That will be a duraspark distributor with a roller-cam compatible drive gear.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T-Bird_79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 7:10AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Your rockers all look like pedestal mounts. It could be that someone lost a set of the bolts and just used studs. I don't see a "E6" or "E7" on either head, and based on the intake, I would guess you have a 1985 CFI engine. CFI used an aluminum intake that a 2BBL carb will bolt up to. Some/Many 1985 engines still had the Mechanical fuel pump mounting provisions with a block-off plate. If it was from an 1985 mustang with manual trans, it would have a mechanical fuel pump, but would have a 4BBL carb/intake and a Duraspark distributor.
As far as port size mismatch, it may not be as bad as you think. Ports are at different angles when looking at the engine and manifold, and they look different. Try putting the intake gaskets up to the ports and line them up with the bolt holes. If they are different, you need intake gaskets that fit the BIGGER opening or you will have a vacuum leak.
Very important question:
Did you check/record your firing order before taking everything apart?
H.O. cams use a different firing order than non-H.O. Both were used in roller cam engines.
Get that wrong, and the engine will not run correctly.

Thanks for Your advice, Randy!
I've made a visit to garage to search for numbers on heads and block. Unfortunately I couldn't see a casting number on engine block, because a starter has to be removed to see the number. But! I was able to find numbers on heads: left head is D5AE, which decodes as 1975-1977 351W head, right head is E8JL, which means a 1988 marine/industrial engine head ShockedCensored. I'm starting to love the guy, who put this engine together, more and moreHug. After these "discoveries", I can't wait to take the starter off and see whats there on block.
Took a pictures of the intake gasket on the head and on the intake:





Isn't this mismatch of the port sizes too big? Maybe it has something to do with the fact, that the heads are from 351? I've also read somewhere on internet, that, if you put a 351 heads on 302, you have to mill the heads, otherwise you will lose compression ratio. Is this correct?
Managed to find a correct Duraspark module almost locally-in England Smile, so I had to buy it


Before taking off a distributor, I've recorded a firing order and it is ordinary 15426378.
That's all for now.
Thanks for reading and any thoughts are appreciated!

Andris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T-Bird_79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 7:21AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

The distributor you will need for that engine the way it sits is one for a 1985 Mustang GT with Manual transmission. That will be a duraspark distributor with a roller-cam compatible drive gear.

Thanks!
How do You think, is this distributor OK in terms of quality?
http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=302831&p=rock&jsn=470
It is remanufactured distributor with steel gear.

Andris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 9:58AM
Cardone is a common rebuilder over here.
Cardone and A1 are the same company, and I think that they may operate under a few other names.
As far as 351w heads go, in the mid-70s, ford started using the same head for 302 and 351, with a larger bolt hole on 351. Earlier 351 heads had bigger combustion chambers, but not by much.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 32 minutes ago at 12:13PM
It sounds like a bit of a hodge podge of parts on that engine.  You might want to find out the combustion chamber size to make sure that both heads are the same.
 
I have used a Cardone rebuild distributor before.  It worked fine and I would buy one again. 
Vince

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