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3G alternator

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Chris E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 3G alternator
    Posted: 29-September-2015 at 3:03AM
I was thinking of replacing my stock 1G alternator with a 3G!!!! Has anyone done this to their car and is it possible to do without  to much trouble???? Thanks for any info on this.
Chris E
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-September-2015 at 6:16AM
VERY easy and a great mod. You can use a V-belt pulley or with a bit of fab work on your crank pulley you can re-use the ribbed alt pulley. The use of the 3G alternator does away with all the voltage regulator wiring except for the Light Green/Red stripe wire, it does require a little bit of heavy cable and fuse but well worth it. Much better idle and overall amperage as compared to even a100amp side terminal 1G. Here's a useful diagram:
To simplify the wiring you can run the Yellow wire from the "A" terminal of the 3 wire alternator connector to the "BAT" terminal output post. Not sure of what version of 3G you are contemplating but I used a large-case 130amp 3G intended for a '94 Ford Taurus with 3.0L engine.  There are a few different configurations that will work, (1) small case 3G and (2) large case 3G's. Here are a couple of pics that may help:
This is a small case 95amp 3G(notice 4 holes per "window")
These are both large case 130 amp 3G's(notice 2 holes per "window")
I used the 7.00" bolt centered Taurus 3G on my BBF Ranchero, was even "clocked" correctly, Lester #7765. You may need to enlarge the pivot bolt hole, my 460's adjustment arm/bracketry fit my 3G fine. Hope this info is helpful.


Edited by aquartlow - 29-September-2015 at 6:25AM
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-September-2015 at 6:51AM
some good ID info here
https://alternatorparts.com/ford-type-3g-4g-6g-series-high-output-alternators.html
 
good prices here


Edited by Rockatansky - 29-September-2015 at 6:52AM
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-September-2015 at 1:49PM
Thanks Guys very helpful info and pics!!!! I am using the 130 amp alternator off of a taurus.
Chris E
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-September-2015 at 9:53AM
I used one off a 3.0 from a 1996 Taurus.
I had detailed a rebuild on my progress thread.

My rebuild shop used bigger GM bearings over the stock Ford bearings {wider}.
Upgraded the rectifier and internals and swapped the regulator with a 1-2 second delay vs the 10 second efi delay.

Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-October-2015 at 12:55PM
Finished the 3G alternator upgrade!!!!! It went perfect changed the pulley cut the spacer belt lined up perfect. Thanks for all the info guys, and thanks for the wiring diagram Todd!!!!!!
Chris E
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-October-2015 at 1:31PM
Chris,
   Congratulations on the 3G install!! Say goodbye to dim headlights and antiquated charging. Always glad to help a fellow forum member if possible.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2016 at 10:52AM
Just picked up an alternator out of a 95 Mustang. 7 inches between the 2 mounting holes, looks like it's a tiny bit deeper than the stock alternator but will still fit with no modifications required.

Hopefully this goes into the car soon (can you buy free time at a parts store?) and then I can look at an electric fan upgrade.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnrlee01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2016 at 12:06PM
what does it mean to be "1g" or "3g" regarding the alternator mod youre referring to?

if youre modding an alternator to go onto a 460, why not just use a modern alternator from a 90's f250-f350 with a stock 460?
74 gts 460/auto with factory sunroof
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2016 at 2:10PM
Originally posted by gnrlee01 gnrlee01 wrote:

what does it mean to be "1g" or "3g" regarding the alternator mod youre referring to?

if youre modding an alternator to go onto a 460, why not just use a modern alternator from a 90's f250-f350 with a stock 460?
 
1G or 3G refers to the alternators design era. 1G is obviously the 1st modern design in Ford alternators(not necessarily the very first Ford alternator, just the first modern design). The 3G is the 3rd iteration of the modern designed alternator. Some designs were terrible(2G) that inherently had elevated resistance in the alternator connections and sometimes causing under-hood fires. The 6g alternator is a much more modern design but it does not lend itself to be installed in "old school" applications due to it using the vehicles PCM to control/monitor it's output.
 Uh, how many 90's F-250/F-350's w/ 460's do you have/find in your local junkyard(salvage yards for those PC) as compared to a mid 90's Taurus w/3.0?? If the alternator fits with a minimum of tweaking and/or modifying why not use it. I can usually literally find a dozen of recently installed remanned 3G's in Taurus/Mustangs that would easily fit our rides for $25 or less in a decent sized U-pull-it yard. These can be used as is or I buy them to upgrade to 200amp with a stator/rectifier/VR change at a much lower cost than most aftermarket units and with better internal components.      
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnrlee01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2016 at 2:47PM
there are quite a few 460 powered f-250-f350 stuff that i have found both online and locally. the 460 powered vehicles or parts that ive found online, are the alternators on those 3g or newer? i would like the option of converting as much modern 460 accessories onto my 74 460 if at all possible. one of the biggest things i plan on doing is putting an overdrive tranny into my 74, and IF...BIG IF... i can find a modern EFI set up that i can bolt on i want to do that as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2016 at 3:56PM
That E4OD is a big SOB, so a bit of trans tunnel surgery required. A stand alone controller for the trans is available from Baumann(spelling ?) but is PRICEY. For EFI, I am seriously looking at the self learning FiTech system for my ride, heard very good reviews with very few/limited complaints. The F-series 3G alternators have a wider spacing between the pivot and adjustment bolts, the one I mentioned is a bit more compact for a cleaner install, but both will work of course. Good luck on your parts search and/or installs, making our rides better is why most of us are on this forum.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2016 at 4:09PM
For those looking to do the alternator upgrade, this seems like a too-good-to-be-true kit:


Anyone try it? does it look like it's missing anything?

Here's some also helpful documentation, in the form of a photo in the ebay listing:





Edited by Canuck - 31-July-2016 at 4:11PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2016 at 4:20PM
Somewhat related: where's the best spot to pull switched +12 from in the engine bay? I have a set of H4 conversion headlights (https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/orc-6904-001/overview/) and I need to power the halos on them from somewhere. In Nova Scotia you legally can't have a car on public roads without headlights / running lights / etc being on regardless of the time of day, so getting these halos working would be awesome.

The downside of the kit? they won't fit in the stock headlight buckets - the hole the wiring goes through isn't large enough. I ordered another set of headlight buckets from ebay and I'm going to introduce them to my dremel, then sandblast / paint them etc. Photos forthcoming, of course.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnrlee01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2016 at 4:24PM
when you refer to a "stand alone controller," what is that? is that regarding any electronic stuff to make the tranny work for me?

how much bigger is the e40d over the c6? are there any other overdrive tranny options that i can use that would not require me to do any cutting of the floor or tunnel? i would really prefer to not have to do any floor/tunnel modification if at all possible.
can you give me the info for this "fitech" system youre talking about? i would like to try to research them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-August-2016 at 12:19AM
Yep, Baumann builds a stand alone controller for the electronically controlled E4OD. TCI supposedly also makes a controller for this trans as well @ $600 for said controller. There are side by side pics online to show the size differences between a C6/E4OD. No matter what or which OD choice you pick, plan on spending $2K+/- on an OD swap to a BBF. Look up FiTech online, lots of info, reviews and installations.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote galvarado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-June-2017 at 11:36AM
I know this threat is several months old.  But I've got a question.  Is anyone using a 3g alternator with their stock ammeter in the rally gauge cluster? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-June-2017 at 12:35AM
You could, but IMO not a good idea since the factory shunt's wire gauge isn't heavy enough to carry the increased amperage of the 3G. Depending on which 3G is used, large or small cased, the idle and total amperage differences could be as much as 3 times. The 10ga shunt is OK for a stock 55-65 amp stock alternator, but not for a 130 amp(read up to 165A @ max output), this "choke point" may cause wire deterioration due to heat/resistance. I realize you may not be taxing the alternator to use all the available amperage output, but limiting the alternator's capability by keeping the restrictive shunt wiring isn't a good idea. I tried this route when I first installed my 3G, didn't take long to see the shunt issue, I removed the wiring and sent my ammeter out to have it converter to a voltmeter(Rocketman-rccinovations). Even the factory BAT wire is much too small, I use a 4 gauge from alternator to ANL fuse holder then to solenoid, even this size cable can be considered a restriction when using the large cased 3G. Hope this helps.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote galvarado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-June-2017 at 4:14AM
I was contemplating having my ammeter converted as well.  I was wondering what others had done about this issue.  I figured the factory ammeter couldn't be used or wouldn't work with the 3g alternator.  There's also a kit from PA performance that uses a different voltage regulator.  Several members on a Cougar forum have used it but they say the ammeter just stays pegged in the center.  I'm considering those two options.  With the latter I'd just add an aftermarket voltmeter.  Along with the heavier gauge wiring of course.  Thank you for the help. 


Edited by galvarado - 28-June-2017 at 4:16AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-June-2017 at 7:37AM
The voltmeter conversion that RCCinnovations does is really nice and matches the gauge font of the other factory gauges. The wiring is real simple for this converted voltmeter, just find a wire that has 12v with ign on and then just ground the other side to a good ground(I used a self tapper screw into the steering column bracket), really no need to run the wiring all the way back to the battery or alternator. The 3G uses an internal regulator, getting rid of the 1G's voltage regulator wiring is a plus, the 3G only uses 1 wire out of the original 1G wiring(LIGHT GREEN/RED STRIPE, which energizes/triggers the alternator to charge)the rest of the wiring is a bit different or at least upsized due to the amperage differences. Good luck.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote torino75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-July-2017 at 5:07PM
Hi,
I did the conversion a while ago, and i got a kit, which disables the idiot ALT light, or ammeter,
But there is a kit that will allow The ALT light and ammeter to work, have a look here:


It replaces the external box and bolts on where the original external regulator was.


Hope this helps.

Syl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-July-2017 at 4:56AM
Originally posted by galvarado galvarado wrote:

I was contemplating having my ammeter converted as well.  I was wondering what others had done about this issue.  I figured the factory ammeter couldn't be used or wouldn't work with the 3g alternator.  There's also a kit from PA performance that uses a different voltage regulator.  Several members on a Cougar forum have used it but they say the ammeter just stays pegged in the center.  I'm considering those two options.  With the latter I'd just add an aftermarket voltmeter.  Along with the heavier gauge wiring of course.  Thank you for the help. 
 
A little old but. . .
 
In the words of Ron Francis, "What's the range of the ammeter? + to - 30, 60, 80 or even 100 amps? Even a small alternator can spike or surge well past 100 amps. If you're alternator is even medium sized it's potential is more than that, you do the math."
 
Ammeter's have destroyed a lot of cars. They're a carryover from the days of generators and I imagine left in because of their history and during the time of the change from generators to alternators no one thought of light bars, invertors, DVD televisions, multi K watt stereo's, computers, satellite communication, etc.
 
Autometer only offers one ammeter and it's rated for 250 amps. They advertise it for stereo amplifiers but add it can be used to monitor any specific circuit. It is not for reading alternators. Besides, a voltmeter is more informative than an ammeter.
 
Safer and more informative is why people go to the trouble of changing a meter over to voltage. Why risk all the time and money that goes in to our cars over the couple hundred bucks to swap a meter?
 
Again Ron Francis, "Hopefully if you have an ammeter it's for looks and not connected."  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote changinlatitudes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2017 at 2:01AM
No reason to let this thread die an easy death.....

Recently got a 3G alternator from John (BlackinBlack - thanks!) and seems a fairly simple hookup. Wire from the alt. goes to the light green/red stripe, which goes to the ignition switch (if I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly). Two questions:

1. The yellow wire off the BAT side of the starter solenoid (with the fusible link) also goes to the ignition switch. Is one of the wires better than the other to use? I'm inclined to use the light green/red stripe, but....

2. Also going to the ignition switch is the wire from the coil. Could this wire also be used, or is it asking too much of this smaller gauge wire.

Or, is the electrical signal going the "wrong way" to use these other wires.

Thanks. The wiring diagram I have is pretty small, and following the colored wires isn't the easiest to do (even with my readers on), so forgive me if this post makes no sense.

Matt

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2017 at 12:03PM
Originally posted by changinlatitudes changinlatitudes wrote:

No reason to let this thread die an easy death.....

Recently got a 3G alternator from John (BlackinBlack - thanks!) and seems a fairly simple hookup. Wire from the alt. goes to the light green/red stripe, which goes to the ignition switch (if I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly). Two questions:

1. The yellow wire off the BAT side of the starter solenoid (with the fusible link) also goes to the ignition switch. Is one of the wires better than the other to use? I'm inclined to use the light green/red stripe, but....

2. Also going to the ignition switch is the wire from the coil. Could this wire also be used, or is it asking too much of this smaller gauge wire.

Or, is the electrical signal going the "wrong way" to use these other wires.

Thanks. The wiring diagram I have is pretty small, and following the colored wires isn't the easiest to do (even with my readers on), so forgive me if this post makes no sense.

I wired my Lt. Green/Red Stripe wire to a 30/40 Bosch relay to energize 6 different relays(as a trigger only, NOT AS THE DEVICE'S POWER SUPPLY) that power 6 individual circuits. If you wire a 5 amp fuse/fuse holder inline on the LT G/R wire before connecting to the 30/40 relay, you can safely energize a multitude of circuits from this single trigger wire. Once again (for my application), I use the LT G/R wire fused @ 5 amps to trigger a 30/40 amp relay that sends a (+) trigger signal to each relay's #86 terminal downstream via a fused wire lead. 
   The wire going to the coil should be a "resistance wire", having reduced voltage, although it still can be used as a trigger wire as well. Even with the reduced voltage, it can still be used as a (+) trigger for a Bosch relay. I used the resistance wire as a (+)trigger to send full battery power via a relay to my 5-pin HEI module. Hope this is helpful.   
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhggtsf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-August-2019 at 3:15PM
Decided to do the 3G upgrade today and need a hint with the wiring.



My wiring is like Figure 2 above; there is no wire in the "I" terminal of the voltage regulator (factory ammeter).



I don't see any other "Green/Red Stripe" wires anywhere close. There's a jumble of wires going to the old voltage regulator, to the battery side of the solenoid and by-passing the old seat belt ignition lock out, but none of them look green with a red stripe.

Or is it the "S" terminal? Now that I actually read the diagram more closely that must be it even though the color is washed out IRL. Ugh. Been at it too long.

How does the same regulator work with the Stator terminal connected in one case and Ignition connected to "S" in the other?

Update: That was it. The wires were all painted over black from when a PO painted the inner fenders, which made tracing it back a pain. What a great upgrade my lights are suddenly way brighter!



Edited by jhggtsf - 31-August-2019 at 5:36PM
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2019 at 12:22AM
Originally posted by jhggtsf jhggtsf wrote:

Decided to do the 3G upgrade today and need a hint with the wiring.



My wiring is like Figure 2 above; there is no wire in the "I" terminal of the voltage regulator (factory ammeter).



I don't see any other "Green/Red Stripe" wires anywhere close. There's a jumble of wires going to the old voltage regulator, to the battery side of the solenoid and by-passing the old seat belt ignition lock out, but none of them look green with a red stripe.

Or is it the "S" terminal? Now that I actually read the diagram more closely that must be it even though the color is washed out IRL. Ugh. Been at it too long.

How does the same regulator work with the Stator terminal connected in one case and Ignition connected to "S" in the other?

Update: That was it. The wires were all painted over black from when a PO painted the inner fenders, which made tracing it back a pain. What a great upgrade my lights are suddenly way brighter!

Glad to hear you got it figured out and the 3G installed. I would highly recommend removing the ammeter wiring shunt(10ga) and changing over the ammeter to a voltmeter gauge. The main reason for this is that you are going from a 55 amp +/- alternator to one now that can produce upwards of 150 amps(large case 3G), the 10ga wire is a major choke point and can potentially overheat/fail=smoke/fire under the hood. When I installed my 3G I left the 2 ammeter leads that run from solenoid/battery stud to allow future return to stock ammeter, they are not connected either behind the dash or under the hood. The BAT(+) cable(I use 0 ga, but 4 ga is sufficient) from 3G runs to an 0ga ANL fuse holder with 175amp fuse then onto battery side of starter solenoid. To convert your ammeter to a voltmeter you can send it here, does a great job and looks stock:  https://www.rccinnovations.com/index.php?show=menu-volt-all.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhggtsf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2019 at 3:58AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:


Glad to hear you got it figured out and the 3G installed. I would highly recommend removing the ammeter wiring shunt(10ga) and changing over the ammeter to a voltmeter gauge. The main reason for this is that you are going from a 55 amp +/- alternator to one now that can produce upwards of 150 amps(large case 3G), the 10ga wire is a major choke point and can potentially overheat/fail=smoke/fire under the hood. When I installed my 3G I left the 2 ammeter leads that run from solenoid/battery stud to allow future return to stock ammeter, they are not connected either behind the dash or under the hood. The BAT(+) cable(I use 0 ga, but 4 ga is sufficient) from 3G runs to an 0ga ANL fuse holder with 175amp fuse then onto battery side of starter solenoid. To convert your ammeter to a voltmeter you can send it here, does a great job and looks stock:  https://www.rccinnovations.com/index.php?show=menu-volt-all.

Where do you get those fuse holders? I went to a few auto parts stores yesterday and the biggest holder they had was for those glass AGU fuses they use for audio. They all had replacement ANL fuses, but no holders. Was hoping to get it local so I could get it done this weekend.

Where is the shunt resistor wired? I have the ammeter disconnected at the cluster since I was in there replacing bulbs - it's not in the meter is it?

By the way, thanks for posting the guide Todd!
 


Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2019 at 7:35AM
i think todd is referring the the big 10ga. shunt wire that is in the sport ammeter wiring? you have the standard cluster right? it uses a idiot light

try an electrical supply place like for industrial electrical supply???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2019 at 9:51AM
Thank you CJ, you are most certainly correct on the shunt wire. The shunt for the ammeter is roughly a 16-24" length of 10ga wire/cable that is folded upon itself and tapped over and lays along the top of the passenger side inner fender, one end goes to the battery side of starter solenoid the other to a junction stud that is just below the starter solenoid on the engine side of the inner fender. I purchased my 0 ga ANL fuse holders off of Ebay, or you can sometimes find them at auto parts stores, Walmart or if all that fails a car stereo shop will usually have them. Hope this helps 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhggtsf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-September-2019 at 4:00AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Thank you CJ, you are most certainly correct on the shunt wire. The shunt for the ammeter is roughly a 16-24" length of 10ga wire/cable that is folded upon itself and tapped over and lays along the top of the passenger side inner fender, one end goes to the battery side of starter solenoid the other to a junction stud that is just below the starter solenoid on the engine side of the inner fender. I purchased my 0 ga ANL fuse holders off of Ebay, or you can sometimes find them at auto parts stores, Walmart or if all that fails a car stereo shop will usually have them. Hope this helps 

Yeah, thanks Todd that helps a lot. I didn't comprehend until you described it how the factory layout worked. The factory alternator was connected to that junction stud so in order to charge the system all of the current had to flow through that shunt cable to get to the battery side of the starter solenoid.

When I did the upgrade I followed that '65 Mustang diagram and connected the output of the alternator to the battery side of the starter solenoid, so it can charge the battery and supply anything on that terminal directly. That shunt cable now has to supply the current for whatever load is on the junction stud. So yeah I will move those loads over to the battery side of the starter solenoid and take the shunt cable out of the circuit.

Thanks again for the help!
Joe
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