400 Water pump

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SPLUHAR

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Topic: 400 Water pump
Posted: 16-December-2010 at 11:54AM

I am changing the water pump on my 400. Got the old one off. The replacement comes w/ 2 gaskets. On my 429, theres a small plate behind the waterpump and a gasket for inside and outside of that plate. On the 400, there's also a front plate. It goes all the way down to the oil pan. The front engine plate is loose at the top, and pulls away from the block, once the pump is off. Am I supposed to pull the front engine plate also and change out the gasket? Are there additional gaskets that I need to change also? Do I need to pull the balancer, etc? The gaskets that the pump comes w/ are both close to the same size and shape, w/ different internal shapes. I just don't want to get this thing back together and have a leak.

1976 ELITE, 71 429 w/cam, quadrajet, 4 wheel Mark V disc brakes, 3.25 trac lok, gutted & 12.9'd Mustang steering box

Rockatansky View Drop Down

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Posted: 16-December-2010 at 3:01PM

the plate behind the water pump is the timing cover, yes the balancer needs to be removed to get the timing cover off. also, the front oil pan seal in the bottom of the timing cover gets tricky if you're not dropping the pan. the way it's designed is to install the oil pan after the timing cover is in place but there is a way to re-install the timing cover w/o dropping the oil pan. it involves trimming/notching of the seal retainer rail corners so the front cover can sneak back in, as designed the corners of the rails hook under the bottom edge of the block. even after customizing the front cover it can still be tough the first time, to make it a little easier i re-use the front oil pan seal because it's already compressed. getting the cover down far enough to catch the locating dowels is the trick, a couple levers, pry bars, long socket extensions... whatever works for you... can be used through the water pump port holes in the cover and into the holes in the block to exert downforce on the front cover.

but before you get to the point where you have wet silicone on the oil pan seal & in the corners where the trimming is, i always do a couple try-fits w/o the gasket & seal to make sure the cover is trimmed sufficient, then with the bottom seal in place. when i'm confident that everything is set to go, i apply the silicone and whatever sealer i like that day, get the gasket in place on the block and have at it

if you don't want to mess with the front cover you can work some gasket sealer into the void between the cover & block where it's loose, pay attention to the water pump port holes because if coolant under pressure leaks into the crankcase you'll have trouble.

if you do pull the cover off you may as well replace the timing chain

removing the 2 engine mount bolts, jacking up the engine and dropping/cleaning out the oil pan isn't that much more from where you're at either, keep in mind though that the oil pump may need to be dropped into the pan to get the pan out, then the oil pump driveshaft will need to be re-stabbed from underneath when you replace the pan & oil pump together. you may need to lift the distributor out of the block to let the OPDS back into place but a gentle turn & wiggle should get it to align in the bottom of the dizzy. and of course the oil pan gasket... which may be easier if you drop the starter...

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Posted: 16-December-2010 at 3:04PM

use the gasket that best matches the water pump

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Posted: 16-December-2010 at 4:20PM

Every time I have changed a water pump on a 351C/400 I have never dealt with behind the timing chain cover plate. I always used one gasket (the closest fit) behind the water pump, sealing water pump to timing chain cover plate.

According to 1975/76 Ford Shop Manual page 21-22-09, it requires only that you put the gasket in between the water pump and "cylinder front cover" and use sealant on the gasket and also on the threads of the bolts being used to secure the water pump.

Scott Eklund

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SPLUHAR Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 02-January-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 146	Post Options Post Reply Quote SPLUHAR Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 400 Water pump Posted: 16-December-2010 at 11:54AM
	I am changing the water pump on my 400. Got the old one off. The replacement comes w/ 2 gaskets. On my 429, theres a small plate behind the waterpump and a gasket for inside and outside of that plate. On the 400, there's also a front plate. It goes all the way down to the oil pan. The front engine plate is loose at the top, and pulls away from the block, once the pump is off. Am I supposed to pull the front engine plate also and change out the gasket? Are there additional gaskets that I need to change also? Do I need to pull the balancer, etc? The gaskets that the pump comes w/ are both close to the same size and shape, w/ different internal shapes. I just don't want to get this thing back together and have a leak.
	1976 ELITE, 71 429 w/cam, quadrajet, 4 wheel Mark V disc brakes, 3.25 trac lok, gutted & 12.9'd Mustang steering box

Rockatansky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6070	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rockatansky Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16-December-2010 at 3:01PM
	the plate behind the water pump is the timing cover, yes the balancer needs to be removed to get the timing cover off. also, the front oil pan seal in the bottom of the timing cover gets tricky if you're not dropping the pan. the way it's designed is to install the oil pan after the timing cover is in place but there is a way to re-install the timing cover w/o dropping the oil pan. it involves trimming/notching of the seal retainer rail corners so the front cover can sneak back in, as designed the corners of the rails hook under the bottom edge of the block. even after customizing the front cover it can still be tough the first time, to make it a little easier i re-use the front oil pan seal because it's already compressed. getting the cover down far enough to catch the locating dowels is the trick, a couple levers, pry bars, long socket extensions... whatever works for you... can be used through the water pump port holes in the cover and into the holes in the block to exert downforce on the front cover. but before you get to the point where you have wet silicone on the oil pan seal & in the corners where the trimming is, i always do a couple try-fits w/o the gasket & seal to make sure the cover is trimmed sufficient, then with the bottom seal in place. when i'm confident that everything is set to go, i apply the silicone and whatever sealer i like that day, get the gasket in place on the block and have at it if you don't want to mess with the front cover you can work some gasket sealer into the void between the cover & block where it's loose, pay attention to the water pump port holes because if coolant under pressure leaks into the crankcase you'll have trouble. if you do pull the cover off you may as well replace the timing chain removing the 2 engine mount bolts, jacking up the engine and dropping/cleaning out the oil pan isn't that much more from where you're at either, keep in mind though that the oil pump may need to be dropped into the pan to get the pan out, then the oil pump driveshaft will need to be re-stabbed from underneath when you replace the pan & oil pump together. you may need to lift the distributor out of the block to let the OPDS back into place but a gentle turn & wiggle should get it to align in the bottom of the dizzy. and of course the oil pan gasket... which may be easier if you drop the starter...

Rockatansky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6070	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rockatansky Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16-December-2010 at 3:04PM
	use the gasket that best matches the water pump

GranTorinoSport Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287	Post Options Post Reply Quote GranTorinoSport Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16-December-2010 at 4:20PM
	Every time I have changed a water pump on a 351C/400 I have never dealt with behind the timing chain cover plate. I always used one gasket (the closest fit) behind the water pump, sealing water pump to timing chain cover plate. According to 1975/76 Ford Shop Manual page 21-22-09, it requires only that you put the gasket in between the water pump and "cylinder front cover" and use sealant on the gasket and also on the threads of the bolts being used to secure the water pump.
	Scott Eklund Webmaster