429/460 |
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eddy30
New Member Joined: 19-March-2004 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Posted: 19-March-2004 at 3:22AM |
Can anyone help me ? I have a -72 Gran Torino Sport with 351C/C6 and I am going to put in a 429/460 and C6. What parts I have to change and are they easily available. I have the new engine and trans but nothing else. Thanks a lot if anybody can give information.
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I have a 73 that some one did that to and all the parts seemed to be standard but they had to cut the fan shroud. Try looking for a S/W with a 429 or 460. Good luck mine is a 73 fastback that had a 351c in it. The gas milege is about 8-12 With 3.50 gearing.
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MarkGubinski
Senior Member Joined: 17-March-2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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It's pretty easy since they came with big blocks from the factory. Mine came with a 351C & now has a stroked 460 putting out 520cu.in. that we use for drag racing. Big block motor mounts fit easily over the crossmember & bolt in the same holes. Front sump oil pan only. Trans crossmember has 2 positions depending on what trans you're using. Hooker makes headers for this combo. Depending on where you want the ride height you might want to change front coil springs to take care of the extra 200 pounds. Might have to change the rad for better cooling also. Might need different lenth driveshaft.
Edited by MarkGubinski |
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72 Gran Torino Sport 557
10.12 @136 @3600lbs. 2 Time Milan Dragway Track Champion. 2012 IHRA Div. 5 No-Box Champion. 97 career wins. |
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Fomoco Ray
New Member Joined: 05-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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You will like the swap. I have a factory "N" code 1972 Gran Troino Fastback. I ran the 71 heads and advanced the cam 4 deg (not the timing). This brought the compression up to 10.5:1 and gives me the stock 1971 output of 360 hp. As for your swap, most of the info has been spelled out already, but you will have to replace the C6 from your small block to that of a 351M/400, 429 or 460. If you do not want to spend the $500.00 on hooker headers then look for a 1972/1973 Thunderbird with a 429/460 motor, it will ahve the correct exhaust manifolds that you will need. These are very nice units and flow good too. I would also run a larger radiator. With this motor I got 16/17 mpg with a 2.75:1 L rear end and P-245 60 R-14 tires. I would also recomend running an electronic ignition from a 1975 or later vehicle. I use the factory ford pieces teh 351C/351M/400 and 460 all use the same electronic ignition. Be sure to get the wiring harness that comes with the distributor and Ignition module. Have fun |
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jeffb
New Member Joined: 23-March-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Kar Krafters makes motor mounts for 125? I beleive the driveline needs shortening, front springs highly recomended. Thanx for all the great info.
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73ranchero
New Member Joined: 18-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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You will also need a nwe trans. Even though yours is a c6 it is for a small block not a big block. Your trans crossmember will work but you will eather have to shorten your drive shaft or get one from a 72-76 Torino/Cougar?LTD with eather a big block or a 351/400 modified becuase they use the same bolt pattern as the big block trans. Good Luck. |
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Nemtorino
Member Joined: 18-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Correct me if i am wrong, but i am pretty sure that the trans for a 351C, 351M, 400M, 429, 460 are all the same. I know for certin that they all are by personal experiance exept the 351C. but from my understanding the 351/400M is a modified cleveland block, with the same trans bolt pattern as the cleveland.
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Nemtorino
Member Joined: 18-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Also i am working on my second 1972 torino swaping a 400M for a 460. the only thing that i needed to change was the motor mounts and springs oh an a large hole in my hood so my stealth intake would fit. |
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I am 17 and am going to try to do my first engine swap. I am running a C4 and a 351M that leaks oil horribly and am going to be installing a 1972 460 out of a lincoln continental ( i got it for an awesome price from a friend, $100!). The C4 should link to the 460 right? I shouldn't need to shorted the driveshaft shoul i? Will i need special motor mounts? what about the headers that are on the engine will they work?
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Nemtorino
Member Joined: 18-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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I dont have much experiance with the C4. I am sure it would bolt up. If you keep the motor mounts from the lincoln they will work on the torino, but the 351M mounts will not mount to the 460. The driveshaft will not need to be modified. However I have never heard of anyone bolting one to a 460 I am not sure if an unmodified C4 would handle the greatly increased power and torque. you might want to shop for a C6.
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I have a c6 but i heard they robbed like 30hp so i though i would try the C4. If the tranny goes out i will just put in the C6. I will let you guys know how the 460 with the C4 goes. I am really hard on trannys so i doubt it will hold up. I guess i will firgure out! O ya does anyone know the power rating on the 1972 460 i was told this engine would have approximately 415hp and 505 ft-lbs torque but i highly doubt it. Thanks for the info Nemtorino. So i guess i will be installing the 460 this weekend. what type of 1/4 times should i expect after the swap? I will be running 2.75 gearing with the C4 and a "i think stock" 460? it has to be better than that tiny 351M i could barely burn my tires with! I will keep posted on how things go! I will try to get some pictures to! O ya i did all the body work and the pintjob on the car (edless hours of work cus it used to be a viynal top and had alot more chrome on it so i had to fill all those holes) so it doesn't look great. for $200 it doesn't look bad though, it still needs 2 more coats but i need to find the time to do it. i figured i would work on the engine part of it cus im getting so TIRED of body work and painting. I also need to get new springs all around! I also have another question, my tires tilt inward at the top whats wrong? Do i need new tierods of what? well i will quit rambling. thanks for the help!
Edited by 1972 GTS |
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Nemtorino
Member Joined: 18-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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1. The 460 I got from a 71 lincoln was rated at 425HP and 500 footpounds at the flywheel, so those numbers do not sound off. 2. In never took My Four door Torino to the track before the engine blew up(one of my greatest regrets), But i know from street encounters It would beatup pretty well on a friends mustang that runs 13.9. Iwas using 2.75 gears, C6, 460 with dove-c heads, a Weiand stealth intake, 750 holly double pumper, and a Comp 270H cam. I mild setup with no headers, MSD, high way gears and the extra weight of the 4-door car. however I never used the 460 with stock componants since i got it from salvage. 3. when the tires tilt in or out it is called camber. On top of your Upper control arms under the hood are 2 bolts, loosining those will allow you to change the camber but i would recomend that you take it to a professional shop to get a front-end allignement to save tire-ware amen to the tired of bodywork... I have along time to go when till i rebuild my 460..this is what i have been doing for th past 3 months.
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JimW
Senior Member Joined: 09-December-2003 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 602 |
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No factory installed 460 was ever rated higher than 365hp, (heck, even the highest "rated" 429 was only 375 hp) and that was gross hp. A bone stock 1972 460 is rated at either 212 or 224 hp with the awful D2 heads, 8.5:1 compression, and stock single exhaust, that is Net HP. I ran 14.3 at 98MPH with a 2d 1976 Gran Torino, 10:1 460 (TRW domed pistons), stock D3VE heads, performer intake, Carter 750 carb, no tuning, 280 Magnum cam, 3.00:1 gears, stock manifolds, 2.5" exhaust with 2.25" tails. (now 13.2 at 104 with 4.33 gears, headers, 3" exhaust, little better induction, and a little porting). All of this is through a stock stall C6, rear wheel HP is around 330 and tq is 404, dynoed at All Ford Carlisle last year, but the times say more is there under racing conditions. FWIW, with the first combo, I also could beat up on my friends 92lx 5.0 who ran 13.9 at 99, but only if he spun, or was just a fraction too slow in reacting, never if he was on his game with his launch and shifts. Unless the 1972 motor is from a Police car, (you said Lincoln, so I doubt it), or for some reason it doesn't have the D2VE heads, I'd recommend looking for a set of DOVE or even D3VE heads, and getting a little more cam.. More than likely you'll run in the mid to lower 15's with a stock 1972 motor in a highway geared, full weight, stock stall mid-size... Possible bad news on the camber, if the shop cannot adjust out the camber, your frame could have sagged, (looking from the front, the rails sag inward at the top, lowering motor and adding neg camber) I had to have mine pulled several years ago to put the alignment back into spec.. Let us know how it turns out!
Edited by JimW |
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1976 S&H Gran Torino
460/C6/4.33 13.05@105.6 545/C6/3.56 11.52@117.8 More to come!!!! 463rwhp/495rwtq two tons of fun see it and hear it at: www.torinocobra.com www.st |
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73ranchero
New Member Joined: 18-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Guys a c4 trans is a small block trans. There are 2 c6's one for small blocks and one for big blocks. If you have a c4 behind a 351 check to see if is a Windsor, If you have a 351 Modified check your trans, it is a c6 (big block bolt pattern). 260, 289 302 all the same blocks ( use c4/c6 small block) 351 windsor is same family as 302 but is wider and taller( still use same trans as above. 351 cleveland is small block bolt pattern for bellhousing. 351M/400M is big block bolt pattern for trans(C6). small blocks also use FMX trans. when I mention small blocks they are all small blocks but 351W-260 and cleveland is what I am saying for trans. Jegs goes sell a big block bell housing for the C4 but it will cost you.
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Nemtorino
Member Joined: 18-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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OK i just have been on crack or feed bad info awhile ago, becouse i really thought that the 1971 lincoln mark III was 425HP, but i confirmed the 365 sorry for the bad info.
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Guests
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So the tranny that i have in my car is probably a C6 then? I know its a 351M but i just used the code on the door to figure out my tranny size, maybee it has been changed to the C6.I was supposed to pickup my engine today but there was a delay so i hope i can pick it up tommorow!!! I will be putting an Edelbrock 600CFM carb on it that has been sitting in my dads shop for a while. Will that be enough CFM for the motor? |
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JimW
Senior Member Joined: 09-December-2003 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 602 |
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No biggie about the bad info, I just learned in the last year that the port work I did on mine was about worthless, even though that style it was totally in vogue when I did it.. For a bone stock motor the 600 will work, not the best, but it will work (even mine ran ok with a 625 Carter up to about 4000 rpm), you'll want to jet that sucker up a bit.. I'm almost certain the 351M did come with the possibility of all three transmissions (C6, FMX, C4) but I haven't actually seen one with a C4 so my sources could very easily be wrong... A stock used C4 would likely bite the dust driven hard behind a mild 460... (if you did have a C4, they are easy to rebuild at home so you could upgrade fairly reasonably) Jim |
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1976 S&H Gran Torino
460/C6/4.33 13.05@105.6 545/C6/3.56 11.52@117.8 More to come!!!! 463rwhp/495rwtq two tons of fun see it and hear it at: www.torinocobra.com www.st |
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Nemtorino
Member Joined: 18-April-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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When I first built my 460, i had a 600CFM Holly. when i got on it around 3000RPM i heard a whistleing, sucking noise from my carb over the sound of the enigne. The engine just seemed to have no power after 3000. But i used that 600 for about 2 years without any trouble. Finaly a friend gave me an extra 750 Double Pumper. and that helped abit. upto about 4000, but i think why the power seemed to level off there was due to my stock exhaulst manifolds and no exhaulst porting on my DoveC's. My 2 cents is that a 600 is definaly too small for any 460, but I will work until you are able to find/afford something bigger. |
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