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429/460CJ SHORTIES

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    Posted: 24-December-2012 at 3:02PM
Have a firm looking into replicating the 429CJ exhaust manifolds as shortie headers. How many would be interested? More info to follow as it develops.......

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-December-2012 at 4:55AM
I would be, that would be cool to have some option to full length headers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whifty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-December-2012 at 3:44PM
I'd like a set if they were stainless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72BlackGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2012 at 4:39AM
I'd be interested too. I've been thinking about that also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foote500 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2012 at 7:44AM
Someone educate me-what is the advantage of shorties over long headers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72BlackGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2012 at 8:39AM
A lot less clearance issues to deal with. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foote500 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2012 at 10:02AM
Ah, so its not a performance issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2012 at 10:53AM
This Summit Racing video may help.....
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2012 at 12:03PM
horsepower just did an episode on different length headers, unfortunately the mule engine they used didn't show hardly jack of a difference, it seems like it was already exhaust challenged by the heads, cam or both already no surprise there Confused Thumbs Down Cry Pinch Dead Embarrassed and a facepalmer too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72BlackGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2012 at 12:53PM
Nice video but in theory on a street driven vehicle they both will preform the same. Drag racing is a different story. No real performance advantage or disadvantage when used on a street driven vehicle. In my opinion. Worth .02 cents really.  I'm thinking less clearance issues around the motor and tranny where space is at a premium is the more of an issue than the performance gain or losses.    Ron 

Edited by 72BlackGTS - 26-December-2012 at 12:56PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-November-2013 at 2:37AM

UPDATE:

I spoke to the company I'm trying to get to do the 429/460CJ style shorties this week and was assured they were interested in making them and would try and get started on the design work after the holidays when their production work dies down until spring. Hopefully I'll know more the first of the year...
 
Keep the faith!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72BlackGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-November-2013 at 6:21AM
Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-November-2013 at 7:59AM
Not trying to throw a wet blanket here but in comparisons in exhaust headers/manifolds, in most cases the "shortie" design is just barely better flowing than a decent exhaust manifold. The best designs are found to be equal length primary long tube headers and "Tri-Y" headers as far as a standard style of exhaust headers go. Popular Hot Rodding magazine had an article on exhaust headers a few months back with some pretty revealing results. I guess if the "shorties" are used just to get the exhaust system hooked up-great, but if you want the best design for efficiency and power numbers you may want to look elsewhere. Just sayin' .
BTW, I have never read or heard about "shortie" headers having more torque and/or horsepower as compared to a properly set of equal length primary long tube headers, having the same sized ports/primary tube diameters. I'm not saying they don't exist, just haven't read/heard about them.


Edited by aquartlow - 16-November-2013 at 8:11AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-November-2013 at 4:01AM
Todd,
 
Yeah, I know they won't make near the power of the equal length headers, but the 429/460CJ exhaust manifolds out breathed the stock manifolds by a mile! IF you can find a set, you're looking a high dollar purchase and I want something to flow better than the FOMOCO piece without all the aggrivation of the long tube headers.... someting I can install and remove as necessary without having to pull/lift the motor... and not cost an arm and a leg! This is a street car and not a drag car so the power gain, while it would be nice, isn't as much as a concern as serviceability, ground clearances, etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-November-2013 at 8:39AM
Joe,
 I can see your point, I hope I didn't sound like a know-it-all Embarrassed. I run Hooker 6126's, which I truly believe are the best fitting and performing headers for our 429-460+ powered intermediate chassis cars, but the do have some fitament issues. Todd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-November-2013 at 11:30AM

Todd,

 
Naw man, I know what you're were saying. I had the Hookers on my original '76 S&H LE back in the day so I know how well they fit and I also remember what a PITA they were, especially when trying to change a starter... I pulled the passenger side wheels up on the curb and slid under the car and I tried and tried to get that heavy mutha out from behind the header once I had it free and when I finally gave up and let it go, it fell straight out and I just did get my head out of it's way or it would have given me one hellova headache! LOL, ahh the joys of our ignorant youth!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-November-2013 at 12:11PM
Primary tube length can make a rather large impact on the power curve where is counts and of course that impact can only be taken advantage of with extensive dyno tuning for that particular motor build. 
It order to truly maximize the way the exhaust system works with a particular build, extensive calculations and testing are required. Often for our deep breathing v8's a "one size fits all" approach does the trick and makes people happy enough to get rid of the heavy restrictive cast iron manifolds. Even if someone was to build a big block for our chassis and tune the piss out of it calculating the best header primary length, there is a very strong chance that based purely on chassis space restrictions that the "perfect" length for the headers may not even be possible. It's far cheaper just to give it a slightly more aggressive cam timing, make minor carb adjustments, or pull weight off the car to make up that 5% of power you could have got with the "perfect" primary length. Having the "perfect" headers is a thing hard core racers do to squeeze every last ounce of energy from the motor.

Now that there is plenty of background info.. I think for a street/toy big block intermediate, shorter tubes (equal length of course) would work and sell very well given a cheaper price tag and easier fitment.  Just having a lighter alternative to manifolds without the issues of the hookers would be great.  Please, is someone does it though, stainless, stainless, stainlesssssss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1974xr7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-January-2014 at 4:38AM
Any update on these? I have a bad exhaust leak on the passenger side of my 429 in my 74. I think its at the manifold Angry! So I am looking at possibly going with headers. My car is factory AC too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-January-2014 at 9:34PM
Spoke with the company again about the 429/460CJ shorties and he apologized for not being underway on these. They had another hot header to design that bumped us but he insured me they would indeed persue them once the new design was wrapped and they got caught up on production. He said they have a couple 72/76 Torinos in house to use as design mules as well as a set or two of the factory 429CJ Torino exhaust manifolds, so it sounds like it's just a matter of making time while also running a business. I'll touch base again about the end of February...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-January-2014 at 2:59AM
you may want to mention / make sure they know about the Crites mounts

with Crites mounts the engine is not in the factory position. a set of shorties that works with both the factory And the Crites mounts would be the but they need to be made aware before they jump in

I went round & round with a guy at Hedman, he insisted that a 72 Ranchero was the same as the 70-71 Torino and their 72+ Torino hedders wouldn't work on a 72 Ranchero. they'd work on a 73 Ranchero but not a 72 at some point long ago they probably got bad info as to the production model year of a car they used to develop the hedders. dude threw out some of the Elliot's names that they got the chassis from to use

any reason FPA shorties won't work?



Edited by Rockatansky - 30-January-2014 at 3:11AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-January-2014 at 4:16AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:



I went round & round with a guy at Hedman, he insisted that a 72 Ranchero was the same as the 70-71 Torino and their 72+ Torino hedders wouldn't work on a 72 Ranchero. they'd work on a 73 Ranchero but not a 72 at some point long ago they probably got bad info as to the production model year of a car they used to develop the hedders. dude threw out some of the Elliot's names that they got the chassis from to use


Just like Dearborn Classics telling me many years ago that they don't have any parts for a Ford Elite? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-January-2014 at 5:10AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:



any reason FPA shorties won't work?

 
Check Papadeaths project thread for the fitment issues with the FPA shorties....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-January-2014 at 8:26AM
Also the fpa's aren't equal length. 

The hookers are equal length.

Equal length is a huge plus in my book
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-January-2014 at 10:21AM
Originally posted by Billy C Billy C wrote:

Equal length is a huge plus in my book
 
I don't think equal length will work with shorties.... ??? Ermm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-January-2014 at 3:48PM
hmm. it would be tricky on the driver's side. I think would take some clever design and time to mock things up a bunch but it could probably happen. That damn power steering box is just right in the freakin' way. 

People just aren't supporting our platform.... yet.


C'mon guys, your telling me we can't design something like this for a BB torino...
Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-January-2014 at 3:50PM
how many people are going to do a quick A-B picture comparison with the FPAs right now??? LOL

Don't bother, it's depressing.

Na, but for real, the FPAs aren't too bad. It is great we are slowly having more folks support our platform


Edited by Billy C - 30-January-2014 at 4:01PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-January-2014 at 5:25PM
I'd think a tight tri-y would be easier to fit into a small space than a 4-1?

instead of 1 large pipe in the worst spot there'd be 2 smaller pipes

and you'd gain better firing order balance too

Edited by Rockatansky - 30-January-2014 at 5:26PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2014 at 12:36PM
Well I contacted the firm I was talking to about the 460 shortie headers (Crites) and Charles said due to the amount of development work required to do a shortie 429/460 header and the limited number of sets he would sell, he would not be able to help us out. One thing that I did which probably was the nail in the coffin was to supply him a couple pics of the FPA shorties! Cry
Charles said after studying those FPA pics versus Crites' long tube headers that it really wasn't that much less of a run. As we discussed the reasoning behind the need for a shortie style and I mentioned the ease of install without having to jack up the engine, Charles said their headers were multi-piece with a bolt on collector so they could be installed without engine removal. I wasn't aware of that and explained why they used individual exhaust port flanges rather than the conventional one piece flange. He also mentioned his headers (2" pipe w/3 1/2" collector) would work with either the OEM or Crites engine mounts and were offered for stock or CJ exhaust ports. Thumbs Up
 
 
So now I must decide between the factory 460 exhaust manifolds or a set of Crites 460 long tube headers... LOL, I'm going with Crites! I think I'll call him back and see if stainless steel is an option.
 
Sorry for getting everyones hopes up and for those already running the Crites 460 headers... how easy were they to install and how well does the tube into collect area seal?
 
THANKS ALL


Edited by TV 2M8O - 09-April-2014 at 12:39PM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2014 at 10:19PM
Spoke with Charles again yesterday and for now their headers are only available in plain steel. Perhaps in the future they will also offer them in stainless....

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