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71 Ranchero Radiator Help. Spewing everywhere

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Don V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-July-2017 at 3:32PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

hmm i just had an off the wall thought...are all the smaller hoses connected correctly? on the windsor the heater hose comes out the top of the intake above the thermostat, the small hose barb on the thermostat housing goes to the upper small hose barb on the pump, the lower small hose barb on the pump goes to the other heater core tube. not sure exactly what it's purpose is but has something to do with circulation (the short 90* hose) just a thought since you said the engine's been changed, sometimes other people do stupid sh*t and makes you wonder WTF were they thinking!
 
The vacuum line syndrome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 1:55AM
any idea on engine's year/source? Putting a standard rotation water pump on a reverse rotation timing cover is also a problem. they bolt up, but misalign cooling passages.
even though you have water flowing thru the radiator, you may be partially obstructed. I've never made a geyser, revving the engine with the cap off. suction thru the radiator to feed the pump is usually enough to keep most of the water in the radiator. overflowing yes, geyser no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 12:53PM
the short 90* hose is external bypass from the T-stat back to the water pump for circulation during warm-up. FWIW the Cleveland family engines have an internal by-pass built into the timing case are of the block
 
it's absolutely possible to mount a reverse rotation water pump on a std circulation engine. I'm not sure about the passages lining up or not but the big difference is where you can't see it, the blades of the impeller are curved / angled the opposite direction
 
with all the trouble you're having i don't see that removing the water pump for inspection and to verify that you don't have scale blockage is outrageous? take the pump to the parts house and compare the impeller to a fresh correct pump for that engine Wink
 
it wouldn't be the first time, and yeah the geyser is pretty crazy
 
the simplest explanation from way out here is that the pump is moving coolant into the radiator instead of pulling from it .... ?
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 1:26PM
Yea the hoses are hooked up right. The heater core is bypassed so the lower hose on the pump goes straight into the upper intake on the manifold.  Not sure if you can do it that way, but thats how i hooked it up. 


71 Ranchero, 302.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 1:34PM
Ill take a look into the water pump being incorrect, its a possiblitly. Im not sure what year the motor is, ill look into it. 
I dont think its moving coolant into the rad from the drivers side. Because it sucked into the lower hose when i revved it up a bit. and it does come out of the thermostat once it gets hot.

The thing is the car was driven as a daily driver 20+ years ago with no major issues with the cooling system. It was my uncles car when he was my age and he never had problems like this. Im beginning to think there was a lot of air in the water jackets and there is a bunch of scale and calcium built up in there somewhere. The rad has some in it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 1:38PM
This car is driving me crazy lol. No timing marks, Dirty carb, Rusty gas tank, and now this. My first "project car" btw. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 2:48PM
Has anyone suggested a compression test?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 3:14PM
Theres no bubbles/exhaust coming from the radiator so i dont believe its a head gasket. ill do the comp test anyway tho. The overflowing only happens once the thermostat opens up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 4:03PM
i'm beginning to think you have a bunch of scale and crap in the engine and or the radiator too?
 if you have a good trustworthy radiator shop near you take the radiator and have it flow tested they can tell you how much its blocked and could knock out a lot of crap too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 5:58PM
Yea probably. But i talked to the previous owner and he said it has actualy always had problems with the cooling system. So its either scale or the wrong pump. Im going to replace the pump as precaution, providing its not too much cash. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 7:26AM
No timing marks? Doesn't the 302 from this era have the pointer cast right into the timing cover? If so it suggests something has been changed and may not be right.
 
I agree with John. If the thermostat is opening and coolant is coming out the cap, coolant isn't getting through the radiator. The 2 options are the radiator flow is blocked or restricted or for some reason the pump is impeding coolant flow. The radiator is the most obvious suspect.
 
The engine may well have blockages but I don't think the engine is your problem unless there is a problem with a head or the block. Your description suggests this happens to fast for an overheating issue specially with the heater bypassed.
 
I was told to asked you about this. Does your car have AC? If it does it should have come with a flex fan and no shroud. The flex fan had issues with throwing blades and no shroud had it's own problems. It was common for people at the time to try their own remedies that were commonly failures. The wrong fan blades and too big or too small spacers were often used. I can't tell you anymore then this but if you have questions I can find out but I don't think this is your problem. Your issues again, happen too fast for this.
 
Forgot this, make sure your head gaskets aren't on backwards. You should be able to see this, square in the front, something else in the back, sorry forgot what. Apparently this is common. 


Edited by Don V. - 17-July-2017 at 7:39AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 10:05AM
Yea maybe i cant see the timing marks well enough, It is pretty rusty. 

No AC. 

Im going to take off the rad and pump and see just what the hell is going on. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 10:53AM
In order for the other members to figure out what year your engine is, you can look at the casting number on the intake manifold. And while it might be possible that ithe ntake manifold might have been changed on your engine at some time. This is a good way to find out a possible year for your engine.
 
There also might be a casting number for your engine block down near the starter motor or in the upper rear/back of the engine block near the cylinder head.
 
The casting number might say E7TE-8425-A or D1TE-8425-A or D3TE-8425-A or another number.


Edited by dave302 - 17-July-2017 at 11:06AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 10:54AM
The yellow arrow in the picture below points to the casting number.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 10:55AM
The casting number is in the picture below.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 11:06AM
Thanks but ive actually got an aftermarket edelbrock intake. Ill look for a cast number on the block. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 12:37PM
Pointer should bolt on. Pointer has to match the balancer. There are 10 o'clock and 11 o'clock pointers...
Mine is FUBAR and gets timed by ear.
Oh, some of the older ones are on the driver side...
Can't be consistent...
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 12:38PM
So today i went and got a new rad cap, hoping this was the problem. I jacked the front end up and filled it up with coolant to the cold line. Started the car up and let it warm up with the cap off. No issues/bubbles/spraying out... untill the thermostat opened up. then all hell broke loose lol. Just started pouring out the rad. So i slapped on the new rad cap and within 1 min the cap opened up and it let the water out. About half of the radiator worth.... The water wasnt even very hot coming out. No steam or anything. 

Time to tear this thing apart i say.. New rad and water pump is on my to do list now. 
71 Ranchero, 302.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 1:35PM
Originally posted by Jordanbrown123 Jordanbrown123 wrote:

So today i went and got a new rad cap, hoping this was the problem. I jacked the front end up and filled it up with coolant to the cold line. Started the car up and let it warm up with the cap off. No issues/bubbles/spraying out... untill the thermostat opened up. then all hell broke loose lol. Just started pouring out the rad. So i slapped on the new rad cap and within 1 min the cap opened up and it let the water out. About half of the radiator worth.... The water wasnt even very hot coming out. No steam or anything. 

Time to tear this thing apart i say.. New rad and water pump is on my to do list now. 
 
Again, this suggests the radiator can't handle the flow created by the pump. Either the radiator has clogged tubes or it's flow rate is too low for the pump. Since you said there's a history of coolant problems I'd go with the problem being in the radiator. If you can get the casting numbers for the engine and heads this can be easily evaluated.
 
Do you know anyone with a radiator with a row or 2 more of tubes running through it that you can borrow? This may not identify blockage or flow being your problem but it may help to isolate the problem to the radiator or remove the radiator from the list of suspects. With the updated descriptions of your problems the potential for the off the wall possibilities seem less likely but doesn't eliminate them IMO.  


Edited by Don V. - 17-July-2017 at 1:37PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordanbrown123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-July-2017 at 1:36PM
I cant for the life of me find the block stamping. Not with the motor in the car anyway... Is there any kind of visual differences between different 302 manufacturing years? 
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