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ZCowher View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: 73 formal roof body work
    Posted: 29-March-2011 at 6:08AM
A bunch of friends an family drag race and restore old cars, and they told me that I should look into getting my car media blasted. What all does that involve? I was also told that I it has some acrylic bondo on it? and that it would need removed cause it will shrink under the paint.

opinions? options?


ZC
2011 GMC Sierra Z71
73 Gran Torino H code (H is for HOTROD !!)
72 F code 4-Door
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-March-2011 at 6:09AM
ZC
2011 GMC Sierra Z71
73 Gran Torino H code (H is for HOTROD !!)
72 F code 4-Door
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ilyes View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-March-2011 at 11:31AM
it's basically like a huge vacuum that spray sand or media, at a high speed/pressure to take off the paint, bondo
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-March-2011 at 11:59AM
Here is a little video of how soda blasting works:
 
Carlos....1975 Gran Torino Squire Station Wagon restored to look like a 1973 Torino Station

Wagon my Dad bought new from McAnary Ford on June 6, 1973 in Gary,Indiana
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-March-2011 at 4:00PM
Do keep in mind that while soda blasting is awesome for removing paint and putty, it does not remove rust the way media blasting will.
I prefer soda blasting and I can rent a system for about $200 per day here in Atlanta.
Eric
72GTS-Ncode (429-477ci)



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-March-2011 at 4:59PM
if I were to not do any blasting at all, and sand buy hand what kind of sand paper would I use and bondo for filler and such,
also what kind of primer do I need?
ZC
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2011 at 10:20PM
I think I answered most of your questions in your welcome mat thread.Just to give you a little background I have been in the Paint & Body Industry for 25 years and have built countless classic cars and hotrods in my career had my own Restoration shop for 5 years and have worked on many show winning cars plus one of my builds at my resto shop was in 2 different magazines so when I give you information you are getting expert advice on how to restore your car and not have it fall apart in a year.Now that being said you can sand the car down yourself but will need a big compressor with alot of volume like 9-12 cfm cause the sanders require it.80 Grit sandpaper is about as coarse as you want to go to strip it to bare metalotherwise you will leave deep scratches in the metal.Media blasting does not take off rust it takes off paint and body filler as they do it with plastic media or walnut shells.only blasting with sand,aluminum oxide or black beauty takes rust off and can warp the sheetmetal as it heats up thinner metal and can destroy it./ou have alot of NOS parts on the car which will sand off fairly easy with 80 grit on a DA sander and only the original panels with factory paint will take awhil to strip by sanding.The red stuff over the primer spots is a Acylic Lacquer putty and yes it will shrink under the paint.Itks old technology from the Lacquer paint days which now cars are painted with Urethane Basecoat/Clearcoat and singel stage Urethanes which last for many many years.Reasone I said to strip the bondo as it is primed with lacquer primer and is not water proof andd only EpoxyPrimer is.If your not going to have the car done within a month or so it is best to use an Epoxy Primer as it will seal the metal from moisture but before you prime the rust must be removed or it can still keep rusting under the primer.It best tl use Duraglas or a chopped fiberglass filler or a product called All Metal to fill your body seams such as that on yoir quarter sail panel where that red putty is cause itks more durable for seams
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2011 at 11:09PM
Now there are other primers that can be used but ony one will seal it from water and moisture which is Epoxy primer.If you use a 2K Urethane Primer,you must use a Self Etching Primer over bare metal unless you use a DTM 2K Primer(Direct to Metal) as it has etching properties like Epoxy Primer has which will adhere without Etching primer first.Epoxy is kore expensive but the best cause it is waterproof.DTM is the better 2K cause it doesnKt require using a etch primer first on bare metal which saves frlm buying 2 products but 2K primer is pourous and will absorb moisture.Body fillers today are just personal preference in brand and some are slightly better but all will work.Soke sand easier then others after the cure which is a plus when sanding alot of filler.Pourable Poly Putty or Polyester Putty is good to use over body filler as your last coat cause it will fill any pinholes(tiny air bubble holes) and or sand scratches from 80 grit or coarser sandpaper and should be final sanded with 180 grit before priming.Body filler can be ruff cut with 36-40 grit on your 1st coats then as you geg it cut and shaped switch to 80 grit and final shape and sand the bondo then apply your final coats with PolyPutty with you can do a quik ruff cut with 80-100 grit but just to knock off the high spots then sand with 180 grit to finish sanded putty.Do yourself a favor and buy a copy of the new Muscle Car Review magazine as it has good feature article on Paint& Body and covers from stripping paint with media,soda blast,chemical strippers and sanding all the way to final paint and has great photos and shows product usage and some recomendations. Basically it is a quik guide to restoring a classic car and has alot of good info besides what I have just covered and slme of the same info that I just printed.Opinions will vary on brand products to use but most are comparable in price with known name brands but you can get cheaper brands but beware of some of the cheap stuff as sometimec you get what you pay for
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-April-2011 at 4:03AM
Zach-
My piece of advice:
If you can't afford to pay a blaster to strip the car, and want to just to a panel at a time, hey, you need to do what you can afford.
I know, I didn't have a choice on some stuff. Luckily I have some friends in low places LOL that run body shops. I have been able to sand blast using a small harbor freight 100 pound blaster and using Black Beauty Coal sl*g material {Stuff Menard's sells}. I had to blast my doors to clean some very minor rust, and to clean the back corner for repair.
I had a small rust issue on the rear corner:

Myself, I have pretty much built my 1972 GTS in small driveways and garages for the last 10 years of my life.
Here is the primer I used, which Jeff is referring to:
DTM, or also "Direct to Metal" primer, is what I sprayed on my Torino.
I drove my car around while doing bodywork on it {Background-I did mechanicals first, so I didn't have to worry about screwing fresh paint up}.

I don't know what PA is like as far as regulations and rules, but here is what I did to primer my car in the driveway:
I spent around $100 on 2x4 and plastic drop cloth material and made a booth. Sort of.LOL 

You can hand strip the car, just be smart, and get a good mask. That old paint, don't want to be breathing that crap in.
{That is a paint mask, but I wear this type alot for when I work. I don't car for regular masks.}

Mechanically stripping the car, you can use a good product from 3M or Standard abrasives, typically referred to as a "britestrip" wheel. You can get for use on a 4.5" electric grinder, or something to use on an angle grinder.
3M also makes NTN {no tools needed} kits, for 4.5" grinders...I've used them for a long time, along with stuff from Standard Abrasives, but expect to spend some money.
The britestrip wheels make short work of old filler, pitted rust, etc, don't load up, but they can put heat into the panel you work. 
I used a BS wheel on my driver's door. 4 layers of paint and a couple primer layers. Had some filler in the center of the door that it made short work of.



About option is, buy a good, quality DA sander, and stock up on 80 grit or 100 grit coated abrasive paper.

{Sorry, technical name is that. I sold this stuff for 8 years. Call it "Sand paper, and some people would get a freakin' stroke...LOL }

No mater what you use, you need to be mindful of how you use the tool on the metal. 
lots of heat=BAD WARPING

My practice has been:
Clean the entire car. Power wash the hell out of it.
Get a gallong of wax and grease remover. Wear a mask and gloves as the stuff you get from Keystone or autobody Jobber of your choice will be strong and sort of give you a minor headache.
Big box of blue shop towels.
Spray the degreaser on the panels and wipe down.
{Get use to occasional degreasing the panel.}
80 grit the panel is just buzzing off old primer.
Rust, depending on what you have, different ways are going to be needed.

Also, keep in mind, if you like in an area that has high humidity, that will flash rust the bare steel pretty fast.


Andrew
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-April-2011 at 9:11AM
Andy I canKt believe you did all that work and drove the car in DTM Primer.Might not be too much of an issue with where you live if the humidity is lower but eastcoast states have a higher humidity but if you drove it in the rain it isn't exactly good.} used alot of DTM primer at my restoration shop as I often stripped cars to bare metal and it eliminates the need to by Etch Primer so it saved a few dollars but is more expensive then regular 2K but a little cheaper then using etch primer & 2K primer together.Anyway I shy away from using DTM after i found out that rust can form under the primer cause it is pourous and not waterproof like Epoxy Primer.We stripped my buddies 67 Coronet to bare megal and primed it in Valspar DTM cause they have it in black and it sat inside my shlp for years no problems then when I closed my shop we had to move the car to his house and put it in my portable tent garage as he had no garage.The car was in the portable garage and closed up and in the summer months got hot inside and with the humidity the car wass exposed to moisture even though it wasnKt getting rained on nWe sandblasted the bottom rear section under the car and I shot the unibody frame and rear floor with PPG DP LF Epoxy Primer and the underneath stayed the same as when I primed it but when we moved the car here to my garage after I moved here we noticed that the car had surface rust forming under the DTM on the outside sheetmetal so we had to strip the body again to bare metal and I treated it with phosphoric acid to prevent flash rust while it is stored in the garage.The moisture and himidity penetrated thru the DTM primer and let the sheetmetal get surface rust so now If I strip a car to bare metal I prime it with a couple of coats of Epoxy primer to seal the metal from moisture cause 2k and DTM 2K primers will absorb moisture so it is not good to leave it exposed fro long periods of time before applying paint.So all that money for primer about $80 or so was wasted as it all had to be stripped off to bare metal .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-April-2011 at 10:45AM
I can see it will take awhile to get the car stripped,bodywork and finally painted so my expert opinion from my experience would be is once the panel is stripped to bare metal and all rust is removed prime them with epoxy primer using atleast 2 coats.If you strip it and there is rust that you have to get off first that will take you some time you can apply phosphoric acid to prevent it from flash rusting as long as it is indoor.It will leave a residue that must be sanded off before priming but it will protect it from flash rust till you get any surface rust removed and ready to prime it.You may use what others may tell you as it is up to you on what you can afford but i won't make a reccomendation to a product that I feel that could fail or not last for the period till it is in final paint.I don't want somebody to say later"hey I used what yoj told me to use and now it is falliing apart" if I myself will not use it on work I perform I will not endorse the usage of it for that application in which you intend to use.Different products are used for different types of applications and circumstances and from my experience I have learned what products I can use when and where and how well they will perform.I can see this car has alot of NOS replacement sheetmetal that now is very expensive and or impossible to find so I would do the best I could to preserve it as I like to build a car once and make it last as long as possible but that is just the way I like to do things if at all possible. You are the one who has to pay for the materials and not everyone can afford to do it the best way possible and have to use less expensive materials to cut cost which can also cut the life expectency of the repairs but sometimes you got to use what you have or can afford and hope for the best and hope it last for as many years as possible

Edited by 73 ProStreetTorino - 03-April-2011 at 11:05AM
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-April-2011 at 6:20AM

My car for the most part has always been in a garage, with either AC or some heat.

Like said before, your milage may vary, but thus far, I have no issues with the DTM. Myself, I would have used Dupont's Uroprime {europrime, or what ever it's called now} but they changed the materials, and I went with DTM after using while helping my buddy with a few jobs at his shop.
 
I like the DTM because it can be used as a primer, a primer filler, or a sealer depending on mix ratio.
Keeps the materials compatible in the system so no issues.
 
Flash rustings I would think is going to be a serious issue in Florida with the heat and humidity.
We have humidity at times here, but it can also be dry.
 
I had it primered for 2 years before it got paint, so with all the bodywork and block sanding, I would have seen rust come up while I was blocking and primer work. No such issues.
 
And, BTW, I only wise I could of had those NOS door skins! LOL 
Andrew
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-April-2011 at 10:00AM
I'd say that would pretty well cover anything I had to ask lol. I didn't mean to insult if I did, and you explained anything that I wanted to know. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I start working on it (along with pics) this weekend coming up. I would have had more but ran out of time this weekend. 
Which car was in the magazine and which one! :) I love seeing others projects and getting ideas.

Thanks for all the info, taking it all in
~Zach 
ZC
2011 GMC Sierra Z71
73 Gran Torino H code (H is for HOTROD !!)
72 F code 4-Door
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-April-2011 at 6:31PM
No worries man. Just got to rambling a bit on this. I did this stuff for a living for 6-7 years myself...I blame it on the paint fumes and lead paint chips...

Andrew
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-April-2011 at 5:47AM
mad hatter?
ZC
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-April-2011 at 9:33AM
I did a 65 Dodge Coronet A F/X drag car replica which is an altered wheelbase drag car.It was featured in April 04 Mopar Collecters Guide and again in Mopar Muscle June 05.It was primed in Valspar White DTM Primer then painted with Valspar Urethane Single Stage W1 MOPAR white.It was a Replica of the Mopar Factory built Body In White A F/X rdrag race car but had modern 12pt cage and mini tubes for wider slicks to race Nostalgia class.The car is now owned by a guy in NY who rebuilt the Hemi into a Race Hemi witha lot of hp.If you follow the URL in my signature I have photos of it on my page as well as other carsTrucks and bikes I have done. I have a big Plaque with the Mopar Muscle articla as it was a Centerfold plus photos of before & after and a progress photo of me working on the car with my nephew next to me as I was stripping paint.MCG mag spelled my last name wrong so I was not thrilled but Mopar Muscle di a better article the next year and my name is in print 3 times ,twice in the article and once under the photo of when I was working on the car. I got alot of work after that car was done cause the owner was a Mopar Mechanic and did work for alot of guys who owned classic Mopars so he would send people my way or they would see it at car shows and I attended some of them so I also met clients at shows that seen it and needed work done on thiers.Now one of the cars I did is about to get sold and then it will be gone and another of my prize jobs will be gone.That is the reason I ended up buying a Torino a ain as I wanted a car I built and painted for myself so when it is done I not only have a kewl car to drive but an example of my work that will always be around for people to view the type of work I do cause cars get bought and sold or people move and my examples are gone.Photos are great but till you see my work in person you really can't fully appreciate it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-April-2011 at 5:00AM
Well knowing your in college and have limited time to work on the car is one of my main reason I say to prime it with Epoxy primer after you have stripped it to bare metal and removed any surface rust cause the Epoxy will seal the metal and prevent any moisture wether it be humidity or water was to get on the surface.You can then take your time with bodywork and priming it with a topcoat of regular 2K urethane primer as the epoxy is mainly used to seal the metal and not as a primer for bodywork and block sanding as it is harder to sand and doesn't have the build of 2KNI origijally come from New Jersey and know how things rust up there and PA is not much different.I'm only suggesting to seal the metal first with Epoxy then when it has cured you can sand it and apply your filler on top and then when the filler work is done and ready for Primer,prime it with a 2K primer but DTM is not needed if you have already priimed the metal with epoxy first and can get a Hi-build 2K To put over the bodywork and rest of the panel as your final primer stage so onl a qt or 2 would be needed for the Epoxy then get a gallon of the 2K for the rest of the work.Wouldn't want you to have the same siuation as I did where the car was stripped and primed with DTM 2k and years later we had to strip it again cause moisture got thru the DTM and started rusting under the primer cause it was not waterproof like epoxy is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2011 at 3:12PM
Would you recommend me taking of the front quarter panels to start the body work on them. I dont have electric were the car is parked right now. I could (and am ) save up for a small generator to run a sander to work on the car were it's at, but for the time being I could take a panel or two off at a time and work them at my home shop. 

Would there be any ,major consequences to this?
ZC
2011 GMC Sierra Z71
73 Gran Torino H code (H is for HOTROD !!)
72 F code 4-Door
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