9 inch axle bearings |
Post Reply |
Author | |
Iain
Member Joined: 21-March-2020 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 06-May-2020 at 12:35AM |
Another issue. Thought my wheel brake cylinders were leaking, but it turns out it's axle oil.
I have a new style big bearing 9 inch, 31 spline set up. The question is, do either the roller or taper bearing sets fit, or are they specific to certain housing tube ends? Timken A20, or SKF Br20 are the sets I've seen. Thanks for any input again! Iain.
|
|
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Is this the stock rear axle in your car? If it is, you shouldn't have 31 spline axles. Don't assume you have 31 spline axles by the hub. Many of these Torinos had the 3-hole hubs, but they were pretty much all 28 spline.
If your axles seals are leaking, you just need to replace the seals unless the bearings have gone bad. You need to figure out if your car has the sealed bearings or the taper bearings as each take different axle seals. We have some information on wheel bearings in this thread here, including part numbers:
|
|
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
|
GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Leaking axle seals are of course caused by worn out / failed seals but you also need to take off and clean your axle vent. The vent is integral with the rear axle brake hose assembly. For lack of better description, it is integrated with that piece, and serves as both the mount "bolt" (with a through hole in it) and the vent. There should be a short run of rubber tubing going up which just prevents water from getting in. What happens is the temperature in the axle changes, along with air movement from the axles moving, and pressure build up. If the vent is clogged, then it pushes out the next available thing to relieve pressure: the axle shaft seals. I have had this happen on my pickup, it was a complete mess. Now I check every vent when I am down there. Often times new ones are available. I have not looked for a Ford 9" version, but they are available for a Dana 60 for sure, and they are all pretty much the same. You still need to replace the seals, and of course bearing replacement is recommended as well. The default bearing for most of our vehicles is the sealed ball bearing. Some do come with the tapered roller bearing which I think is a better installation, however that is an axle housing change. Either way, clean your vent, get new seals and bearings, and some fresh good axle fluid and you will be GTG. |
|
Scott Eklund
Webmaster |
|
Iain
Member Joined: 21-March-2020 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for all the info.
I was told it had 31 spline, it's been modified in other areas (a 460, C6 etc) so would think it is true (I'll find out soon enough!) Will check the vent, and try to pull the shaft out to see what's there. I'm assuming if it's got taper bearings in it will just pull out, but sealed bearing will be a bit more of a struggle? Also, are 31 spline a thicker shaft or the same as the 28? Oh for a standard car - parts would be much easier to source! Iain. |
|
Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
28 spline axles have a step down in diameter near the bearing end and are skinnier to the splines, 31's have no step down and are beefy from the hub flange to the spline. i wouldn't try to order bearings until you know what you have and can bring the axle in to match the bearings in the store
|
|
72 GT Ute
|
|
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Like Rock said, you best to pull the axles to see what you have. You will probably need a slide hammer to get the axles out. There are other methods of removing the axles, but a slide hammer makes quick work of it. You might be able to rent/borrow one from a parts store if you don't have one.
Scott had good advice re the vent line. I actually had the rear seal on my truck blow out because the rear vent got full of dirt and corrosion. There was so much pressure inside the axle, when I removed the drain bolt it was like removing a valve from a tire. Here is a photo of my rear axle. If you look on the left side of the photo you will see the black rubber line. This is the vent hose which connects to the vent fitting on the housing. As for the axle size, pull them an do a spline count to be sure. A lot of people assume all axles with the three holes (see below) are 31 spline. They aren't, those axles pictured below are actually 28 spine Torino axles. Like Scott said, most of the cars have the sealed ball bearings. If you have sealed bearings it makes the seals easy to replace. Once you remove the axles, you will see the seal inside the ends of the axle. The bearing rides outside the seal, as it is a sealed unit. If you have the taper bearing, the bearing will have to be removed (and then replaced) to replace the seal. The bearing in this style is in the oil bath, so the seal is on the outside of the bearing. If the bearings have any play, they should be replaced, but keep in mind you will have to have them pressed on the axle. Good luck and keep us posted.
|
|
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
|
californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
yes what the others all said! also save your original retaining rings from the old bearings... i've here some new bearings have some that are thicker and can cause issues fitting with the inner seal?
more than likely its a sealed ball bearing. if there's any play at all in the bearings replace them with good quality ones! |
|
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
|
GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This is what I have installed on both my pickup (Dana 60) and Chrysler 300 (Chrysler 8 3/4"). The picture shown earlier depicts the vent as it's own thing and the brake hose distro block as another. On Ford it could be either way I suppose. It's not my photo, I just grabbed it from the internet because it looked like what I was trying to describe. On my pickup (the one leaking fluid into the brake drums) the vent was completely clogged. I manged to clean it out and reinstall. Then I think several months later I saw them for sale so I bought one. Later on with my Chrysler I just happen to be back there and so I checked the vent and while it wasn't totally clogged it did need cleaning for sure. Now I want to check my Torino.
|
|
Scott Eklund
Webmaster |
|
Iain
Member Joined: 21-March-2020 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Going to check tonight/tomorrow. Thanks again for all the info, it's really great.
Jacking the car up enough on one side should keep the oil in the other tube while I pull one axle off the other side.....i hope! If not, next doors driveway will require a quick scrub! I need to pull the axle, see what I need, then put it back again as I can't leave the car immobile waiting for parts to arrive. No space like you guys seem to all have!
|
|
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Just lift up the rear axle and keep it level set each end on jack stands. Then remove an axle. I wouldn't do it on an angle. FWIW, the vent that Scott pictured above is used on some 9" rears, but not typically used on these 72-76 Torinos. They usually have this setup below as seen on my rear axle. The rear brake hose mounts the differential carrier studs/nuts and the vent is a separate fitting on the housing, with a rubber line that runs up above the axle (to keep water and dirt out). |
|
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
|
Iain
Member Joined: 21-March-2020 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Looks like the last US owner was wrong about the shafts, they are 28 spline. Ordered timken roller bearings and some seals after measuring and looking at part nos. £60 delivered (in 7 days or so), which is good for me. Most places wanted nearly £60 per side here. Ridiculous really.
Poked the vent too. Seemed clear. One nut is screwed holding the passenger side retainer plate on, but that will be the garages problem when I go there (I would have just took the shafts, but that nut spoiled the party!). Was pretty simple too, thanks for the help chaps.
|
|
albo74
Senior Member Joined: 25-February-2006 Location: ME. USA Status: Offline Points: 616 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So Vince , The rear end , what is that ? , I was thinking of getting a speedway set up , Limited slip 899 , I have open 3.50 gears and 28 , I would leave the gearing the same , Thoughts ?
|
|
albos73gts
|
|
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That's my stock rear end, after I restored it. I did that probably 7 years ago or so. The axle was blasted, and I had the housing powder coated. The third member was just resprayed in red oxide and clear coat. At the time, I just replaced the axle bearings, but I left the differential alone. However, I just pull the diff over the last winter and had the Traction-Lok rebuilt and replaced all the bearings. I hadn't seen those Speedway third members, but I just checked them out and they look great for the money. Way cheaper than the Moser or Currie members that Summit sells. At some point if I install a Gear Vendors, I'd get a second third member with a lower set of gears. I'd be inclined to try one of those Speedway units. Anyone else got an opinion them? Rock? CaliforniaJohnny? Anyone else?
|
|
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
|
californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
moser and currie are both excellent! idk i read the description on the 775 one sounds like all decent stuff and they all say N case material so...?
|
|
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
|
Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
no personal experience or anecdotal reference either, but interesting. i wonder if their 'short Ford' yoke is comparable to our stock yoke or if it will pull the slip out of the trans for my pet-peeve less than full engagement condition? i'd like to see a dimension from the housing gasket surface to the yoke flange for comparison. also curious about the U joint, our standard IIRC is called a 'Cleveland style' joint, the cap OD's are different sizes but i don't remember if the shaft sides are standard or the yoke? and would their 'short Ford' yoke convert the rear joint to standard 1310 or retain the stock Cleveland style joint ... IDK ... ? |
|
72 GT Ute
|
|
albo74
Senior Member Joined: 25-February-2006 Location: ME. USA Status: Offline Points: 616 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I hope I don't need axle seals , I didn't want to start a new thread But getting in to this new rear end , The traction-Loc , isn't that the same as the posi-trac , limited slip or Torsen ? three X two , gears only rear end ? ( no clutch pack) that's what I have now a Lunchbox clutch pack 3.50. 9 years old and slipping . Vince when you say a lower gear , you mean going from say a 3.50 to a 3.25 ? I did call Speed way and they are backed up till the end of June ,anyway I read that a taller or higher gear would give more performance . say 3.50 to a 3.70 . use more gas a little quicker off the line . and lower , will save gas , better cruiser , True ? anyone running 3.70s behind a 351 Speedway says they have the 1310 style short Ford yoke on these units that should bolt right up. We will see .
Edited by albo74 - 19-May-2020 at 11:03AM |
|
albos73gts
|
|
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A factory traction-lok was a limited slip with friction discs on the '72-76 Torinos. There was no other option, like a Detroit locker used in the 1970-71 Super Cobra Jet Torinos with 4.30 gears. So if your car has a factory Traction-lok rear end, it will have friction discs. Mine was original and untouched, so it wasn't locking up the rear axles very well if I did a burnout. New friction discs fixed it, but all the differential bearings were also changed while it was out. If your differential is aftermarket, there could be an other non-limited slip style differential installed, like a Tru-trac. When I say lower rear end, I mean lower gear ratio (numerically higher). So this would increase acceleration but also increase highway RPM and likely increase fuel consumption. Higher gears (numerically lower) will decrease acceleration, but also decrease highway RPM and likely increase fuel economy. For your differential now, you could potentially bring it to a re builder and just have the traction-lok discs replaced if the rest is okay. But if you want more acceleration snap, then you could just buy an entire differential third member and change the ratio. Or you could buy a new ring an pinion and have someone do the install. Moving to a 3.70 rear will potentially increase your acceleration, but you will have even higher highway RPM. FWIW, the 1972-73 Q-codes had either 3.25 or 3.50 gears from the factory with high stall converters. Here is an RPM calculator: For my car, since my engine has tons of low end torque I don't need a lot of gear. I will probably eventually go to a 3.25 gear set and a GV OD. That would give me more snap off the line, but I actually be a little lower revs on the highway. Right now if I cruise around 75 I am at about 3000 RPM, and I am still getting passed. I do a lot of highway and back road driving rather than around town, so high speed performance is more important to me than street light performance.
|
|
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
|
Iain
Member Joined: 21-March-2020 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Bearings/seals fitted today, all sorted.
On Saturday, I had the car recovered home as the noise from the rear suddenly became horrendous. Didn't sound like a wheel bearing noise either, but turns out the passenger side bearing had completely gone. All seems fine now, driven it a few miles and it is all quiet. Thanks for the help again. Iain.
|
|
californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
good deal, yeah when ford bearings completely go the axle can come out seen it many many times! glad it fixed and working good!
|
|
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
|
Post Reply | |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |