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A/C help

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unlovedford View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20-July-2015 at 2:42AM
I'm having an issue with the A/C in the '74 Cougar. The car apparently will blow the fusible link located by the master cylinder every time you try to run the system. I found a cut wire going to the compressor, fixed that. Blower motor switch has been checked and is ok. I removed the blower motor and checked it. Pretty new unit, and I tested it directly on the battery, ran fine, didn't get warm, spins freely. Reinstalled it. Before I install a new fusible link, has anyone else had this issue? Almost like a dead short in the system. Pictures attached of the wire by the booster. I will leave the blower motor unhooked when trying it again (just to eliminate it from the equation).

Any suggestions?




Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
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1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
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ilyes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-July-2015 at 6:05AM
I would pull the entire wire and replace it, it might be broken inside the insulator somewhere.
Does the AC clutch engages when you feed it power?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-July-2015 at 8:14AM
Is that the 10 AWG wire that feeds the fuse for the AC system and then runs off to the temp selector and out to the blower eventually?

Either the blower is pulling too much current or you have a short somewhere as you identified.

Do you have an ammeter or the ability to obtain one?

Another solution would be to pull the fuse and then disconnect at the solenoid power terminal where all the high amp wires hook up, and then run a resistance check from wire to chassis ground. If there is a short to ground, and it is a constant hard fault, this would find it.
Scott Eklund

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unlovedford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-July-2015 at 2:02AM
Thanks Scott, I'll do that. Allan graciously offered to help out fixing it. Good guy.

Pulled the dash apart this weekend looking for any melted/burned/odd spots in the wiring. Nothing, everything looks new. Short is either getting worse, moving, or I am missing something here. Originally, it would pop the fuse if you hooked up the blower motor wires. Now, with only the main plug powering the control unit and a set of wires on the control unit (not going to the box under the dash), it is popping the fuse. I'm running out of fuses and patience, LOL.

Has anyone ever encountered a main control unit going bad? As soon as I move the lever from off to vent, it pops the fuse in a spectacular fashion. I am going to continue tracing the wiring and will check for grounds/shorts to see what is up, but this is stumping me. C is now back to building her portable A/C unit like she started on last year when we took the wagon to SRN. Ughhh.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-July-2015 at 2:41AM
I did have a control go bad once, but it dealt with the spring loaded lever switch for the compressor, not a dead short like you are experiencing. I realize this info was sourced my '79, but I do remember that there are two sets of wiring running toward the passenger side of our vintage rides. One lays on the dash's bottom metal support bracket that runs parallel to the floor, the other runs against the firewall behind the defroster vents, can't remember what wires went where. It definitely sounds like a dead short, trying to find it can be a major PITA, maybe try this to help.
 Unplug the blower motor, blower motor resistor and the ambient temp switch in front of the condenser/radiator(these can be tested individually), (if this is possible)remove the A/C control panel from dash and let hang below dash so you can test each terminal/connection. Find a 12+ source(without the key being on) and using a test light, attach the alligator clip to this 12+ source. Now with the probe end of the test light find the wire(s) that light up the test light, these will be a ground source. I would operate the control unit to see if there is something going on with the control itself(unlikely). There are sources that will go to ground through the device(A/C clutch, blower motor), but the A/C control sends out only a 12+ signal(s)(along with vacuum and mechanical signals of course). You may have to shake the harness at each probe test of the wiring, but this should fairly quickly find your dead short wire, fixing it is another issue. Hope this helps.   
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-July-2015 at 5:54PM
not sure about the a/c controls, but the non-a/c units have a switch in between the control levers that turn on power to the fan, my defrost (fan motor) stopped working a couple of times, i moved the lever back and forth and the motor works again! if yours has a switch like that it could be bad, or the wires from it may have gotten pinched in the metal lever???
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-July-2015 at 1:02AM
Joe,
 Also have a look at the fuse panel itself, make sure there is no corrosion on the metal fuse holder "fingers" (increased resistance will cause blown fuses/heat) and/or the fuse panel isn't cracked/broken in some way or it's fuse holder connections aren't loose. Good luck. 


Edited by aquartlow - 28-July-2015 at 1:04AM
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qcode72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-July-2015 at 2:18AM
check blower switch plug for melted connections.also check the wire on back of fuse panel for brakes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2015 at 8:14AM
Ever find or get to the source of the electrical problem?
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2015 at 8:39AM
Todd,

Not yet. I spent a few hours this week testing circuits, swapping control units, cleaned the fuse box connections (thank you), and still no answer. Continuity will give one reading, then change again the next test. Allan has offered to help and I may take him up on it if I can swing the time. Oddly, I have the complete dash assembly out of my '74 Ranchero I parted and the wiring looks the same for the A/C, but completely different sensors above the glovebox and around the dash. Worst case, I unplug the Ranchero wiring and bypass the Cougar wiring with it temporarily for the trip. Only 1 wire (red one) looks even a little deformed/corroded. Picture attached of the fuse box beforehand and that red wire on the main plug going into the control unit.

Fuse is good for the cigarette lighter, but it does not work. I will attempt to remedy that for my Garmin.



Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
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1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2015 at 11:15AM
  The fuse box looks to have a little bit of corrosion on the bottom fuse holders, could be an issue that can be taken care of by emory cloth, sand paper or wire brush. The cig lighter socket could have been unplugged, either the +(center post on the back of the socket) or the -(spade connection/connector that attaches to the socket and actually tightens up into the dash). IIRC, There is also a 3 terminal connector, that uses "bullet" style plug-in male connectors, under the dash usually found between the steering column and the radio. I'm sure you have found these or know what I'm trying to 'splain Wink. Good luck, I got my fingers crossed, best I can do for ya from where I sit. I have a complete wiring and vacuum diagram manual it is for a '79 but may be helpful to get wire colors and designation.  
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2015 at 11:51AM
joe, just a wild thought... what about the wiring to the compressor clutch? that will come on along with the blower motor, short may be out there??? or clutch drawing to much extra load??
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2015 at 2:35AM
Many thanks to everyone, especially Todd and Allan. Allan helped troubleshoot this thing over the phone and we found one more issue last night. The temperature sensor switch. Bad. Jumped the wires and voila! Compressor kicked in. I took it to a buddy's shop this morning before work and he's going to evacuate the system and retrofit with R134. Hopefully, I will be basking in the frigid temps of a '74 Cougar A/C system on my way home tonight.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2015 at 9:11AM
  Keep us posted!
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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unlovedford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2015 at 9:26AM
He called and it held vacuum for 2 hours. New 134, new oil and he says it is keeping the car at least 20 degrees cooler inside than outside just sitting out in his lot idling. He expects it to cool better once it gets rolling. If this stays right, I'll be a happy, happy camper.

BTW, these old York compressors take 14 to 22 horsepower to operate. A modern Sanden? 2 horsepower. Big difference.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2015 at 10:18AM
 Cool dude(pun intended)!!! Good to hear the A/C is back up and running.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2015 at 2:06PM
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