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Direct Link To This Post Topic: A/C Question? & Retrofit Info.
    Posted: 06-July-2011 at 10:24AM

Hello,I am searching online for a A/C compressor. Most of the sites I go on are asking if it is a factory installed,dealer apron installed or dealer condenser installed a/c?  How do you know what you have?  I would think my a/c was factory installed?  What is the difference Coogan 

Edited by 73 ProStreetTorino - 13-July-2011 at 8:01AM
Thanx,

Coogan


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-July-2011 at 3:02PM
Most of the dealer installed or aftermarket A/C installs of the time had the hoses clamped, with a screw type clamp. Factory installed had the hoses were fastened with crimp collars. Also, the heater box was usually still a non-A/C unit. These were prone to leaks, and did not work as well as the factory system. The dealer I was at  at that time sent the vehicles out to another business that did the aftermarket installs. I think the compressors used were the aluminum cased York compressors.
 
1977 LTD, 2 door
1972 N code Ranchero, Project
1972 Torino formal roof
1970 Torino 500, Project
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-July-2011 at 3:54PM
Thanx for replying to my post.

I checked those A/C hoses and they appear to be machine crimped?  I think my A/C unit is a factory installed item?

     
Coogan
Thanx,

Coogan


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-July-2011 at 6:57PM
Yes, it is a large compressor manufactured by York. I will try and take a pic tomorrow, but many Torinos had A/C from the factory, it is logical to assume yours is factory installed. 

I presume you are searching for a replacement compressor?

If so have you considered an upgrade to something more modern like a Sanden or Seltec compressor? Change your system over to R134a. You'd need to buy several new parts, and it is a $$$ investment... But if you are already replacing a compressor (major part) and the drier should be replaced at that time, and who knows what else - may want to consider the jump. I can post some additional information I had researched about this should you wish.

Not trying to de-rail your plans, but the idea is at least worth consideration.

I would say in situations where all that is needed is a recharge and other minor work, the effort and cost of going with new components and a new refrigerant is not likely worth it... But when doing major work it is a serious consideration that no Torino owner should discount.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-July-2011 at 2:53PM
Hello,

Thanx for replying to my post!

I think it sounds like a great idea!  Since I have to replace the compressor,drier and the freon maybe it's worth the extra $$$$$   What other A/C parts would have to be switched out? 


Coogan
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Coogan


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-July-2011 at 6:08AM
Coogan-
The best suggestion i can offer is to source parts from a specific company that works on retrofitting systems.
I rebuilt my AC system, using a known good York compressor, original Ford AC condensor, new Ford type replacement dryer, and I had my hoses rebuilt using the original fittings with new hoses crimped on.
I should have had new fittings crimped onto the ends for the compressor fittings with 134a service fittings, but have found the hoses in my Harbor Frieght 134A guage service set will screw onto the R12 service ports {without the 134a adapters}.
 
If you have not worked on an air conditioning system, you can replace the seperate components, but if you have no experince in charging the system, I suggest leaving this to a professional.
 
I've worked on my share of cars, but the refridgerant is in high pressure, and you can damage the system if you over charge the system or worse case severely hurt yourself if not careful.
 
Thant goes for anything I guess but just wanted to caution you.
I've been told on occation also, if handling the PAG oils, wear nytrile gloves and keep off your skin, as the additives that is in the PAG oil will cause cancer if left on the skin long term.
 
Personally, I got my car up and running, and the AC seems to work decently enough, but at times it does not seem to cool like a late model does. I'm still balancing the correct refredigerant charge level though.
 
Andrew
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-July-2011 at 7:43AM
Here and the next post are a compilation of comments on the subject I have received at an auto air condition discussion forum from years past. It does not provide specific part numbers, only general guidance, but retrofit to a more efficient (read: less power hungry) A/C compressor is possible and possibly a good path should you be faced with widespread replacement issues.

It is my intention to do just that on my 75 when I do the engine change. I want A/C, but intend to turn the York compressor into what it is best suited for: a boat anchor.

(Sorry Andy, not intending to dis what you have done, I have always had a hate for those compressors. If you have a good working system, as I have stated before stick with it like you have done. I think the idea of going with a new compressor is intriguing, but it is new territory an as such is prone to installation problems). In other words, the engineer in me speaking!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-July-2011 at 7:43AM
Round 1 of comments:

+++++++++++++++++++++


Subject:    Re: Marginal at best...
Date:    September 06, 2002 at 12:26:36
Posted by:    Bohica on via: or 64.50.21.211
In Reply to:    The message posted by Reini on September 05, 2002 at 14:21:05:




Current european cars like the MB, Audi, SAAB, VW etc. have good A/C. What we are discussing here are european cars of the mid 70's vintage. American cars of that vintage had high capacity A/C, with lots of reserve cooling. When I was at the Yucca, AZ proving grounds in '74 the standard test was to run a black Lincoln Town Car (with 4 people on board) around the oval at 80 mph for 15 minutes. Then a hard stop, and park it in the sun with the grille 6 inches from a concrete barrier. Idling in drive for 15 minutes it could not overheat, and the cabin could not rise above 78f.
I doubt the '73 Bavaria could have passed this test.

Reserve is a function of how much space and power you are willing to spend. American cars had 7.5L V8's and a square meter of grille to work with. An Audi Fox had a small electric fan meant to cool an idling 1.6L engine, and a radiator area about 1/10th that of the Lincoln. The Lincoln fan could absorb up to 40 horsepower - about 50% of the total HP of the Audi..... Get the picture? In '74 the auto magazine writers drove say a Torino with a 429, and a VW Dasher 1.6L on the same day. Sure, they said the Torino had terrible understeer (it still does) but they also said the Dasher had crappy A/C.

-----------------------

Besides their reliability, Gran Torinos were reputable for ice cold A/C's!. If you, for any reason, appreciate the car (cash value aside)you're in for a major investment if you want to make it cool as it used to. Its A/C components are fully incompatible with today's requirements: condenser is too small, expansion valve is for R12 with nothing else in mind, filter has 26 yrs of God knows what inside, hoses, as Chick says, are very questionable, and that York is a great anchor. Your best bet is to fix the leaks and use R12 again. My humble opinion.

Subject:    Re: R134a retrofit for 1970's Ford
Date:    August 06, 2002 at 17:12:30
Posted by:    Chick via: or 205.188.209.107
In Reply to:    The message posted by Scott on August 06, 2002 at 15:54:42:




I would change the lines if they look questionable. The compressor should be changed to seal compatablity issues. You can upgrade your system by using the Seltic compressor from ackits.com. As long as your changing the lines, now is also good time to switch to a parallel flow condenser. Drier must be changed also.. e-mail Tim at Info@ackits.com for prices and opinions on the Seltec compressor and adaptor plate...Good choice in my opinion, but he has quality reman Yorks too......Hope this helps..

Subject:    Re: R134a retrofit for 1970's Ford
Date:    August 07, 2002 at 11:27:18
Posted by:    LarryBible via: or 192.195.181.11
In Reply to:    The message posted by Chick on August 06, 2002 at 17:12:30:




Either option presented so far is acceptable, but I want to chime in because I've been there, done that in converting a York compressor system to 134. It won't hold up to the pressures as well as all the other negatives already mentioned.

After going through this, my options were; change compressors as Chick outlined or go back to R12. The R12 route is definitely the least expensive and worked very well for me.

R12 is now about $29 per can, and even at that price will be much cheaper than converting to a compressor and other components to change the system to 134.

I don't think you indicated any particular problem with the current system. If the system has never been gone through, it would not cost much to replace the expansion valve and even the compressor and freshen the o-rings everywhere and the filter drier. You will then have a very good, ice cube maker that will last a long time.

R12 is expensive, and this sometimes causes an emotional reaction that costs more than just buying the R12.

My $0.02 and best of luck,
Larry



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-July-2011 at 7:44AM
Round 2 (better info):

++++++++++++++++++

You can bolt on a Sanden or Seltec compressor with an adapter plate. A paralell flow condenser, 16 x 26" will fit just fine. You can upgrade the system to use an accumulator and orifice tube. It's relatively easy to upgrade your Torino but costly. The evaporator is quite fine. It should cool great and if not leaky, you shouldn't be concerned about it. In any case, they are still available.
Let me know if you need more information


Seltec TM-15 compressor with direct mount. Can be ordered with proper V-groove pulley and various connection types for hoses.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-July-2011 at 8:18AM
Sanden is what is used on our Durango and the last two Intrepids I had. Chrysler HVAC for the LH sedans and Durango were designed to cool like a 3-ton home AC unit. And when they're running right they sure do. I would be more than happy to put a Sanden under the hood of my car if it'll run better with new refrigerant.

So a parallel flow condenser, eh? What the heck is that and do they make them sized right for our cars?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-July-2011 at 5:28PM
Thank you for posting all the information on the A/C upgrade.  



Coogan
Thanx,

Coogan


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-July-2011 at 7:48PM
Originally posted by occupant occupant wrote:

Sanden is what is used on our Durango and the last two Intrepids I had. Chrysler HVAC for the LH sedans and Durango were designed to cool like a 3-ton home AC unit. And when they're running right they sure do. I would be more than happy to put a Sanden under the hood of my car if it'll run better with new refrigerant.

So a parallel flow condenser, eh? What the heck is that and do they make them sized right for our cars?

"Parallel Flow condensers are approximately 1/3rd more efficient than a standard OEM Tube & Fin condenser. When converting from R12 to R134a using a Parallel Flow model condenser greatly improves performance. Parallel Flow condensers can also be used with R12 and alternative refrigerants."

ackits.com has them in a variety of sizes:

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-July-2011 at 1:15AM
Reading this makes me feel better about the condenser I bought for my F100.. It is a parallel-looking, but is it?


This was the other one available. 




Paul
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-July-2011 at 6:20AM
Scott, good article.
No worries about offending me on this subject.
{**edited for smart ass comments, and good taste}
 
My discussions with an outfit out of Texas that is selling stuff on ebay, they recommend changing out the POA {thottle suction valve} to a orface tube tube with a compressor cycling switch {reduce the load and compressor runs like on a late model}, upgrading the lines to new 134a hose material {I have around $200 into my hoses reusing my fittings. Screwed up, should of got 134A fittings.}
 
I've debated about getting a unit like off an early 80's Fseries with a 400 to bolt on my 351c, but I am going to break down and do a senden conversion as budget allows.
 
Been meaning to speak to Ron about the coversion he did in his blue 72 GTS, and get more info.
Andrew
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-July-2011 at 6:32AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Scott, good article.
No worries about offending me on this subject.
{**edited for smart ass comments, and good taste}
 
My discussions with an outfit out of Texas that is selling stuff on ebay, they recommend changing out the POA {thottle suction valve} to a orface tube tube with a compressor cycling switch {reduce the load and compressor runs like on a late model}, upgrading the lines to new 134a hose material {I have around $200 into my hoses reusing my fittings. Screwed up, should of got 134A fittings.}
 
I've debated about getting a unit like off an early 80's Fseries with a 400 to bolt on my 351c, but I am going to break down and do a senden conversion as budget allows.
 
Been meaning to speak to Ron about the coversion he did in his blue 72 GTS, and get more info.


Ron Earp I presume?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-July-2011 at 7:57AM
this is a good article and think I am gonna sticky it for future reference. I am converting my 72 GTS non A/C car to have air conditioning by swapping the dash and evaporator case from my 73 formal that I parted out with factory A/C but I am doing as Scott and going with the Sanden compressor as they have aluminum bodies and can be polished up to have some bling and not look ugly like the old York compressor. I will get a new condensor and also drier.I am going to see if I can use the hoses from a Explorer/Ranger that I canabolized for the dash and took all the A/C and drier which is removable, I think from the lines.It will basically be all new components except for the evaporater unless it will not hold suction when I vacuam test it.

good write up and good info. for anyone retrofitting to R134A

Edited by 73 ProStreetTorino - 13-July-2011 at 8:04AM
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-July-2011 at 9:24AM
FWIW, I did one of the "R134 conversion in a box" kits on the F100 years ago... and it worked fine. change compressor oil, rings, pressure valves, and freon. The only reason I am buying new hardware is that I broke a fitting on the condenser.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-July-2011 at 4:19PM
Scott, correct.
I think he had something in his progress thread?
I looked at the second condenser, and that looks like an OEM type.
First unit looks more like the cross flow, but I could not tell you. Compared to the OEM looking unit.


Here was the email chain I had from the ebay outfit. What intrigued me most, was the have a sanden unit with the same end plate similar to the York, so the layout of the hoses do not change.
The gentleman I spoke with, JW spent the time with me over a number of calls, and to be honest, he was extremely helpful.
I managed to patch this together with the York unit a new idler bracket I had, and got things running.

Of note:
working pressures in the system.
According to Ford, the 1972 model year Torino system, low side should run between 10-20 PSI for R12. You need to watch the high side pressures, as excess pressure will take out the compressor.
I've let my car run, on a 90 degree day, fan blowing air into the condenser, and low side was around 18PSI. High side, I forget but I want to say I was around 220PSI.

As before, this is stuff that can be done by a lot of us, but wear safety glasses and I wear gloves when screwing service lines on because I have had freeze burn from freon before and it hurts like hell.

                       
eBay
                       
Dear eliteman76,

I do not know what an evaporator core dash is but if you are referring to an evaporator core that goes in the dash we do have these available. Ford used two diffent versions on the 72 Gran Torino one was labeled with a Harrison label the other with a Philco label. Both are differant and we will need to know which one when replacing. Both cores run $365.00 and price includes shipping. 
On the condenser if you are replacing with a universal parrallel flow condenser we do supply these with brackets. You will not utilize your existing brackets. You will also have to purchase a reciever drier that you would most likely need to mount to the fenderwell for easiest access. You would need fittings and hoses to work with your new condenser we would supply a kit for this. The condenser would drop into the frame the same as your original so not special modifications would need to be done to your frame. 
I hope this has been of help. 
J.W.

- airparts8775428192





From: eliteman76
To: airparts8775428192
Subject: Re: Details about item: eliteman76 sent a message about 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 TORINO AC COMPRESSOR KIT #180302140917
Sent Date: Feb-10-11 10:00:10 PST

                       
                       

Dear airparts8775428192,


JW-
Thanks for the heads up on the condensor.
Do me a favor, check for me on the evap core dash. I want to double check ahead of time to see if these are readily available.
 
Right now, the list I have:
Sanden AC compressor {please confirm the fittings, I am assuming I can reuse my rebuilt hoses}
Condensor unit plus fittings. {If you have a drawing on the layout for this unit, let me know. I have a hose on the upper driver side, and then the hose on the lower passenger side}
Will the condensor drop onto the OEM mount brackets?
Filter assembly- I installed a brand new filter, specific for the original Ford condensor.{Assuming I need to replace this with a different unit}
 
Fittings are the other thing I need to confirm before I order.
 
Thanks for all the help on this.
 
Andrew 


-----Original Message-----
From: eBay Member: airparts8775428192 
To: eliteman76
Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: Details about item: eliteman76 sent a message about 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 TORINO AC COMPRESSOR KIT #180302140917

                       
                       
Dear eliteman76,

Andrew, I just scanned down your messages and found you are working on a 72 Torino. I can do a replacement double row condeners for $265.00, price includes shipping. We can do a parallel flow condenser however this would mean changing up the drier and hoses. 
J.W. 

- airparts8775428192



From: eliteman76
To: airparts8775428192
Subject: Re: Details about item: eliteman76 sent a message about 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 TORINO AC COMPRESSOR KIT #180302140917
Sent Date: Jan-27-11 10:19:03 PST

                       
                       

Dear airparts8775428192,

Afternoon JW-
I called and spoke with your receptionist today, if you have time, please give me a ring back at my office. No major rush.

One of the things, on the 351 cleveland, the adjustable York compressor bracket, it bolts to the compressor, but pretty much wraps around it.
That then bolts to the block mounted plate.
I am also looking at the POA kit you have, but is it really needed on a 134 conversion with a sanden unit?
 
Other consideration I had was, I am running a original Ford AC condensor on my car. Would performance be on par with an original type condensor?
Main thing is I am looking to update once...in past setups, I've never been impressed with 134 conversions as they never seemed to blow cold enough.
Thanks,
Andrew
 




-----Original Message-----
From: eBay Member: airparts8775428192 
To: eliteman76 
Sent: Sat, Jan 15, 2011 10:33 pm
Subject: Re: Details about item: eliteman76 sent a message about 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 TORINO AC COMPRESSOR KIT #180302140917

                       
                       
Dear eliteman76,

Andrew, we tooled up with Sanden a back head plate for the Sanden compressor with fittings exactly like the York compressor where you only need to unscrew the fittings off your York compressor and apply directly to our Sanden compressor. On the adjustable bracket you would not need this for you do have a idler pulley on your vehicle for adjusting the belt. We can paint the compressor black for an additional $20.00. If we can be of any further assitance or if you wish to order just let us know. You are also welcome to call us toll free during busines hours at 1-877-542-8192. 
Thank you for your interest.
J.W.

- airparts8775428192



From: eliteman76
To: airparts8775428192
Subject: Details about item: eliteman76 sent a message about 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 TORINO AC COMPRESSOR KIT #180302140917
Sent Date: Jan-15-11 14:24:01 PST

                       
                       
Dear airparts8775428192,

HI-
I am looking to retrofit my 1972 Ford Gran Torino, 351c, with the york compressor.
I've been wanting to update to the sanden type, but do you have any sanden units in black?
Also, will I was reading the info on the hoses, I just had hoses done using original ends for my compressor.
Here is a shot of my setup. {I spent a chunk doing the hoses for 134a, and would prefer to not have redone.
Also, on the adjustable bracket, does that put a lot of stress on the compressor? Just curious.
Thanks
Andrew
 {cell}

- eliteman76
                   
                   
               
               
                   
                   
               
               
                   
                   
               
               
                   
                   
               
               
                   
                   
               
               
                   
68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76  TORINO AC COMPRESSOR  KIT
68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 TORINO AC COMPRESSOR KIT
Item Id:180302140917
End time:Feb-13-11 10:13:52 PST
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Member since Jan-09-07 in United States
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Andrew
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-July-2011 at 6:25PM
Andy,

That's really good information. I have always read Sanden or Seltec is like saying Honda or Toyota, both good. If a Sanden will bolt up to the factory mount plate - awesome. That really is the biggest hurdle I believe. Lines can be custom manufactured to meet needs, parallel flow condensors are available, filters, driers, etc. The evaporator is best left factory style (new one though) due to fitment issues, since it is really application specific.

Pretty much a done deal if a person is willing to work with the system to install it, is what I am taking from it. Although not cheap by any means! But I am not sure any route really is cheap if you need to do anything more than just recharge your system.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-September-2012 at 3:52AM
well i cant find all the parts to fix my heater box or a/c so i going to wait and see about installing something different later i am just going to seal up the firewall and let her ride
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