The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Model Specific Forum > Other
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - alignment info
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

alignment info

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Regul8r View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 26-December-2007
Location: Sarasota FL
Status: Offline
Points: 6625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: alignment info
    Posted: 27-December-2014 at 1:43PM
was helping someone on FB and figured I should put it all here too...
 

ok, so... here are the Upper Control Arms (UCAs). The 2 large bolt heads you see go down through the UCA Shafts through a slotted hole into a welded bracket/mount on the frame.

 
 
Carl N Dee Corey CAMBER (visible wheel tilt, in or out). IN is NEGATIVE that means the wheel lays down INTO the wheel well and looks like the rear wheels on an old Volkswagen bug or the passenger side tire of a NASCAR on a short track. OUT is POSITIVE that is the wheel tilted OUT and looks like the DRIVER side tire on a NASCAR on a short track.

Carl N Dee Corey You adjust CAMBER on our cars by loosening those bolts and pulling or pushing them EVENLY in or out. That moves them from negative to positive.

Carl N Dee Corey CASTER is the angle of the Upper Ball Joint(UBJ) in relation to the Lower Ball Joint(LBJ). NEGATIVE Caster means the UBJ is FORWARD of the LBJ as measured with a level stright up and down (PLUMB). NEGATIVE is like a shopping cart and all the OLD cars before they had PS, to help them turn easily, BAD HANDLING!!!

Will- Hmmm. I just tightened them down and called it a day. I didn't realize that they would need to be adjusted. So do you think that I will need to put some spacers on the 2 bolts to get the wheels to lean out more?

Carl N Dee Corey POSITIVE caster means the UBJ is REARWARD of the LBJ as measured with a level stright up and down (PLUMB). POSITIVE is used on performance cars, GREAT handling and will snap the steering back to center when you let off the wheel.

Carl N Dee Corey CASTER is adjusted on our cars by those SAME bolts... Loosen the bolts and instead of pulling/pushing the UCA in/out EVENLY, you pull the front OUT or push the rear IN and that creates POSITIVE Caster as it pushes the UBJ back.

Carl N Dee Corey NOW comes the FUN part! You have to adjust the caster and camber TOGETHER on our cars!! You have to pull evenly and then NOT evenly to get the right Caster and Camber measurements at the same time. MANY times it is a compromise. You can get ALOT of Positive Caster BUT need to reduce that in order to get the correct Camber!

Carl N Dee Corey NOW comes the FUN part! You have to adjust the caster and camber TOGETHER on our cars!! You have to pull evenly and then NOT evenly to get the right Caster and Camber measurements at the same time. MANY times it is a compromise. You can get ALOT of Positive Caster BUT need to reduce that in order to get the correct Camber!

Carl N Dee Corey AFTER you get the Caster AND Camber correct THEN you work the Toe in/out and centering of the steering wheel!

Carl N Dee Corey IF you are NOT an alignment tech and have an alignment machine at your house... you HAVE to take it to the shop to have them do it!

  •  
  •  

    Will- I'm with ya... Sounds like I need to take it to the shop for an alignment and sit there with them to make sure that they are doing it right. I had no idea that this affected the Camber/Caster...

    Carl N Dee Corey Toe in/out...

    Will-  Mine are def Toed in
    I'm going to run back through everything to make sure everything is torqued down then get it to the shop... Thanks for the help with this.. It sure is a pain in the ass trying to figure out things when you're just guessing what the problem is... Suspension needed to be fixed anyway so it wasn't a waste of time.

    Carl N Dee Corey The alignment rack, machine and measurement devices ALSO check THRUST ANGLE... that is IF the rear end is straight in the car/truck, if NOT the car will crab crawl or dog track...

  •  
    Carl N Dee Corey and that is a BASIC class on alignment for our cars! WHENEVER you do ANY work to the front suspension and steering parts you HAVE to take it to the shop and get it aligned!
  • Will-  I had a buddy helping me that had just done the same thing to his 67 Mustang. I guess things are just a little different. My uncle builds street rods and restores all kinds of cars. I've been doing the work at this home shop. I'll have him take a look at it to make sure I'm safe to get to the shop for an alignment... You are a tremendious help man... I can speak for everyone when I say that everyone appreciates it.
  • Carl N Dee Corey, the OTHER thing to remember on our cars is you have to leave the lower control arms INNER bushing and the UCA shaft bushings LOOSE, then drop the car on the ground, bounce it upp and down to get it to "settle". Even drive it forward and back to get the tires to set in place and not bind from the pressure after lowering off the jack. THEN with the car still on the ground and NOT jack up, tighten the UCA Shaft bushing nuts and the LCA inner bushing bolt. IF you don't do this then the bushings will be stressed/twisted causing the car to sit higher than it should and in time will then settle and casue the bushings damage down the road and early failure.

    Carl N Dee Corey ASE certified Alignment Tech, I love doing this stuff!

    Carl N Dee Corey as for jerky... depends on what you mean?

    Will- I didn't do that either... I guess I can put it back up on stands, loosen them up, then set it back down........ Jerky - I turn the steering wheel and it was loose. During the middle of turning it, the wheel jerked in the direction that I was turning.

    Carl N Dee Corey something is binding, you have the UCAs WAY out of proper alignment or you have a bad steering rag joint.

    Will- I don't doubt it. I just put the new parts back on the way that they came off... or so I thought



    Edited by Regul8r - 27-December-2014 at 2:00PM
    Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
    1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
    97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
    US Army Retired
    Back to Top
    californiajohnny View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Avatar

    Joined: 05-October-2013
    Location: winlock, wa
    Status: Online
    Points: 8444
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-December-2014 at 3:09PM
    also make sure your wheel bearings are adjusted (no slop) before you take it to the shop, that will effect the alignment readings!
    JOHN
    74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
    74 VETTE CUSTOM
    90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
    77 CELICA CUSTOM
    75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
    79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
    75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
    70 CHEV C10 P/U
    68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
    Back to Top
    Big Bird View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Avatar

    Joined: 25-August-2013
    Location: New York
    Status: Offline
    Points: 3144
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 3:18AM
    There are some weird tools needed for aligning these...
    Newer guys in modern shops seem to get confused...Confused
    The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
    Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
    Randy
    1979 T-Bird
    2006 GMC Sierra
    Back to Top
    ilyes View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Avatar

    Joined: 09-January-2010
    Location: Philadelphia PA
    Status: Offline
    Points: 3612
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 3:43AM
    I'm a newer guy lol. What tools are you talking about?
    I'm gonna throw mine on the rack next week to see where she stand with all the bushing dry rotted.
    I use this bad boy to do alignments everyday. 


    Edited by ilyes - 28-December-2014 at 3:43AM
    Back to Top
    Regul8r View Drop Down
    Admin Group
    Admin Group
    Avatar
    Moderator

    Joined: 26-December-2007
    Location: Sarasota FL
    Status: Offline
    Points: 6625
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 5:18AM
    yeah there are tools for the caster camber...
    like this one...
     
    You set the pin in the hole you see in the picture and the other side goes over the shaft.
    When you loosen the UCA Shaft bolts it naturally wants to push all the way to the inside.
    Use both of these on 1 side and you can loosen or tighten to get it to proper Caster/Camber then re-tighten the UCA Shaft bolts.
    Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
    1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
    97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
    US Army Retired
    Back to Top
    californiajohnny View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Avatar

    Joined: 05-October-2013
    Location: winlock, wa
    Status: Online
    Points: 8444
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 5:56AM
    i always try to get my cars close before i drive them down to my alignment guy(25 miles away)so it don't chew up my tires! i use a can of white spray paint,tape measure,and a torpedo level. he said the last 4 or 5 cars i took to him were within factory specs, and he would get it even closer for me Shocked
    JOHN
    74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
    74 VETTE CUSTOM
    90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
    77 CELICA CUSTOM
    75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
    79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
    75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
    70 CHEV C10 P/U
    68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
    Back to Top
    75GranMan View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member


    Joined: 05-April-2011
    Location: Colchester, CT
    Status: Offline
    Points: 1207
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 1:34PM
    I have a pair of those adjusters!!! been a long time since I aligned one of our cars.
    John 75Gran Torino 4spd
    Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
    Back to Top
    ilyes View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Avatar

    Joined: 09-January-2010
    Location: Philadelphia PA
    Status: Offline
    Points: 3612
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 1:50PM
    Once I open my own garage, I will give free alignment to you guys. That will be my Torino special ^^
    Back to Top
    Regul8r View Drop Down
    Admin Group
    Admin Group
    Avatar
    Moderator

    Joined: 26-December-2007
    Location: Sarasota FL
    Status: Offline
    Points: 6625
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 2:10PM
    John, wanna send them to me to use and I'll send them back after I get it aligned!?
     
     
    Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
    1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
    97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
    US Army Retired
    Back to Top
    dave302 View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member


    Joined: 08-October-2009
    Location: usa
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2800
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 2:16PM
    There are also special tools available to adjust the toe-in and toe-out and the caster/camber measurements. Sometimes you can find them in good used condition for a very low price.
    This one below has a magnet that you can connect to your wheel bearing dust cap or to a location on your wheel, to adjust the caster and camber to specifications on the vehicle that you are working on.
     
     
     


    Edited by dave302 - 28-December-2014 at 5:24PM
    Back to Top
    dave302 View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member


    Joined: 08-October-2009
    Location: usa
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2800
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 2:17PM
    Back to Top
    Regul8r View Drop Down
    Admin Group
    Admin Group
    Avatar
    Moderator

    Joined: 26-December-2007
    Location: Sarasota FL
    Status: Offline
    Points: 6625
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 3:02PM
    The magnet ones are good IF you can get them on WITH the wheels on and the car on the ground.
    As soon as you jack it up, it changes everything.
     
    The driveway DIY tools are also ONLY good if you have an EXACT level driveway/garage.
    I checked our alignment rack weekly and had it serviced/leveled every couple months.
     
    A bubble level gage put on a rim that is on a non level driveway/garage floor is useless.
     


    Edited by Regul8r - 28-December-2014 at 3:07PM
    Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
    1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
    97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
    US Army Retired
    Back to Top
    dave302 View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member


    Joined: 08-October-2009
    Location: usa
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2800
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2014 at 3:30PM

    You can also measure your toe in and toe out, with just a measuring tape and chalk.


    1) I believe that the alignment specifications for a 1975 Elite is supposed to be something like 0" to 3/8" Toe in.
     

    2) Draw a line on the tire tread: With the car still up on the jack, hold a thin piece of chalk, or white pencil against the center of the tire tread. Hold your hand very still and turn the tire one full turn, creating a line around the circumference of the tire tread. Do the same on the other front tire. 
     
    3) Lower the car to the ground and push the car forward or rearward about one or two feet with the steering wheel unlocked to make sure the wheels are straight.
     

    4) Take a string or wire or measuring tape and stretch it between the lines on the front of the front tires, that are even with the spindle, and measure the distance on the string or wire, or just look at the measuring tape and write down the measurements. Repeat this process at the back of front tires. As long as you use string or wire that does not stretch, you can get very accurate measurements this way.
     

    5) Subtract the differences. If the distance in the front is smaller than in the back, your wheels are toe-in. If the measurement in the back is smaller than the measurement in the front, then the front wheels are toe-out. If they are identical, you have zero toe.



    Edited by dave302 - 28-December-2014 at 8:02PM
    Back to Top
    GTW View Drop Down
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Avatar

    Joined: 21-January-2012
    Location: SC
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5610
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GTW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-August-2015 at 7:25AM
    Originally posted by Regul8r Regul8r wrote:

    Carl N Dee Corey CAMBER (visible wheel tilt, in or out). IN is NEGATIVE that means the wheel lays down INTO the wheel well and looks like the rear wheels on an old Volkswagen bug or the passenger side tire of a NASCAR on a short track. OUT is POSITIVE that is the wheel tilted OUT and looks like the DRIVER side tire on a NASCAR on a short track.

    Carl N Dee Corey You adjust CAMBER on our cars by loosening those bolts and pulling or pushing them EVENLY in or out. That moves them from negative to positive.

    About how many degrees can you add/subtract? 
    Griffin
    1973 Gran Torino station wagon
    1971 Maverick 2 Door
    1994 Mark VIII
    Retired 60s NHRA Anglia
    Back to Top
     Post Reply Post Reply
      Share Topic   

    Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

    Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
    Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

    This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.