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Topic ClosedAny motor heads that built their own 351C?

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lynchster View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Any motor heads that built their own 351C?
    Posted: 06-December-2011 at 12:21PM

I have a spare 351C that family got together and bought me for Xmas one year. Considering the money and time I will spend on the original engine I thought I'd put the spare in for now (next summer).

Anyhow. I thought I'd tear it down and replace all the gaskets, pull the caps, and check the internals out. It's supposed to have been rebuilt at one time but I thought I'd see if there is anything specific to the cleveland I should be checking for.  
Chuck
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kenneth View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-December-2011 at 5:27AM
With a lot of help from people on this forum and some Google work, I understand that the primary weakness is the factory two piece valves, Rod cap bolts if you are going to see above 6000 RPM, a mains priority oiling system, again if its to see some high RPM work (they have been running factory oiling system since construction)
If you are going deep enough to pull your Cam, have a GOOD look at the thrust plate. For whatever reason mine fractured.
The Valves would be a minimum requirement thou.
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lynchster View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2011 at 9:30AM
Originally posted by kenneth kenneth wrote:

If you are going deep enough to pull your Cam, have a GOOD look at the thrust plate. For whatever reason mine fractured.
 
Thanks Kenneth, that's the stuff I'm looking for. This one is only going in to have the car under it's own power and maybe for quick fix now and again. I want to take some time with the original engine and I haven't decided which direction to go in entirely.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2011 at 2:48PM
I have a heap of stuff in my "project update" thread. I am still a number of months away from cranking it to see if I have done everything right. 
My objectives were - be able to use new fuels and oils with NO concerns of additives, offer as much frictionless parts as I can to keep heat down = more HP anyway (that's what I told the wife, so sshhhhhh don't tell her that) and have a factory look under the hood.
My pistons had to be replaced anyway so it made sense to get free HP gains from flat-top ones by uping the CR rating.      
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 4:12PM
I'm going for the factory look myself. Even going with valve cover spacers to hide the valve train under stock valve covers. I still have two major questions up in the air though.
To stroke or not to stroke. If I do I'm figuring on going minimal, to say 373 ci. I've been reading up on piston thrust angles and cylinder wall stress.
The second idea I came across was "partial" filling of the water jackets to stabilize the cylinder bores. That one might be overkill on a street engine and I'm not sure I like the idea of increased engine temperatures.    


Edited by lynchster - 14-December-2011 at 4:13PM
Chuck
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 6:35PM
I seriously considered stroking mine. I thought if my crank needed some serious engineering, the cost could be better thrown at a new assembly. I would have gone all out to the maximum stroke available, with a stroker kit. Obviously my crank didn't even need a grind, and its the 4MA beast that most people look for (better iron content as I understand it, or something to that effect)
Its different strokes (pun intended) for different folks.
I am not sure of the limitations of the kits, and at what point the block needs clearing/engineering. If you are going to do it (at lest this is what I thought) expect block work no matter how large you go.
 
I hope Max (aka Rockatansky) chimes in and enlightens you more. He has been a real big help and knows these engines very well. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-December-2011 at 4:59AM
If you have 4 barrel heads stroking it would help alot, not only with the added cubes, but it helps the 4 barrel heads in the low range . I build clevlands all the time for panteras and if you are not racing it , the bottom end is good, the only thing I do to the oil system is run a high volume pump, and a cobra jet pan with baffles is good. A 4 inch stoke is the max you want to go, several good kits out there , SCAT has a good setup even with the cast steel crank, nascar guys ran the stoke iron crank all  the time so you don't have to go to a forged crank if you don't want to spend the money. Head work can go all over the place, if you just unshroud the valves , clean up the underside of the vavle area in the ports, mild cleanup in the ports a good 3 anngle valve job maybe a edelbrock air gap manifold with a .550 lift cam, and you are good to go.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-December-2011 at 2:31PM
Thanks for the input Bill. The 4V heads are behind my consideration for a stroke kit. Not sure how far I'd go with it. I figure even at 373ci I could gain horsepower. The main goals are dependability, a relatively stock look, and as much horsepower as possible without having it run like a bracket racer.        
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-December-2011 at 2:56PM
I literally yesterday just fitted up my high pressure oil pump and test fitted my factory Q code sump (with baffles) to find I needed to clear for the larger oil pump, 110mm hole saw was what I used, then cleaned up the mess in the pan.
Hight volume pump sits about 10mm deeper into the pan and was obstructed by the bottom baffle.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2011 at 9:25AM
Get any pics? What made you decide on a high pressure pump?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2011 at 10:54AM
While searching the web about the cleveland, I came up on that post on ford muscle
You got to admit that is nicely said, it did crack me up pretty bad lol

Let me think about that one a minute... The C takes a bit more "thinkin'", but it's a very cool motor and runs like the ****ens. I'm low 12's (7.79 1/8 ) with 3200 lbs race weight and the engine is mild as heck. There are lots of 302's with more cam and stall than I've got. And when you open the hood - it's "Fear Factor - GM Edition".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2011 at 12:31PM
a stroker doesn't make any more HP, it just changes the rpm where the HP is made
HP is a mathematical result of RPM & torque
 
new quality 1 piece valves are 'must do', but you can get away with just changing the rod nuts for new rather than having bolts fitted and the rods rebuilt. the stock bolts are pretty good but the nuts are crap, you can see fractures on used nuts with your bare eyes 
 
i used ARP 200-8604 (1 ) / 200-8624 (2) / 200-8634 (10) which are hex rather than the 300 series 12 point
 
here's my Ressurection thread, bringing a Cleveland back to life on the cheap
 
411: the oil pump pressure spring doesn't do anything after the oil reaches temp, it's only effective at start up, serving to prevent the oil filter from launching off the motor. never seen an engine so tight or anyone using oil so thick it'll hold regulated pressure all day long? even straight 50 lays down at temp
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2011 at 12:57PM
Just noted I posted - "high pressure pump" - this is incorrect, I purchased a high volume pump and shimmed it to offer high pressure. So effectively I should have a high volume and a high pressure pump, all in one.
 
I did this for my own personal reasons, and it could be debated all day long what to go for or what to do.
Look at it this way - stock is what the factory supplied, and how long has the 351c been running for.
Only thing I believe I should do is go to a bigger volume sump, or I may draw to much oil into the block and effectively have a sump with nothing in it, with this pump I have installed.
I will take all precautions to prevent oil from being pumped out gasket surfaces.
 
Take a look at my thread as I am just going to load up some updates there and pictures of sump etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2011 at 4:22PM
Also be sure to check the heads for hardened valve seats, my very first set of heads had the valves driven about 1/8" into the heads because they were made when leaded gasoline was still available.  Also new valve springs are an absolute must, even if they are stock spec!
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