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anyone used panelbond for trunk & floor pan repair

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MrSmog View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28-March-2016 at 4:22AM
We just moved to this property back in may, so I don't have a real shop setup yet, just usin one of the barns to work on things and dismantle vehicles I part out. I was curious if anyone has used 3m's panel bond for trunk and floor pan replacement? I have experience with their 5200 marine adhesive and am pretty much convinced it's stronger then a weld. I think the panel bond is a little bit less flexible but from what I am told, just as strong or stronger. would love to hear anyone's experiences with  this stuff. I'd rather not farm stuff out if i can help it, not just to save the money but also because no one seems to care about quality work or care of a customers stuff. Usin this to replace the trunk and floor pans would allow me to do this sooner then later and save me a ton that could be spent elsewhere on the car. 
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 5:45AM
NOT recommended.
the fiberboard and other "pressboard" stuff does not hold up in wet conditions.
 
you will eventually have to replace it sooner than later.
 
IF you are honestly looking at that route then go the metal route and use washing machine or dryer side panels. That is THICK metal. cut and weld as needed. add supports as needed too.
Not pretty if you just do quick patches but you can't see through carpet anyway.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 6:24AM
I think he is referring to using bonding adhesive instead of welding to secure the metal in place.

I have seen this done and from a technical point of view, there is nothing wrong with it.

I do not use bonding agents on cars that did not come with them from the factory as it just looks out of place on older cars like this.

Also, it is hard for me to get past the thought of grouping this type of repair to being the same as using bondo or fiber-glass to perform rust repair

Even though I acknowledge that it can be a technically superior and easier repair to complete, I would still go old school, cutting, welding & grinding for a finished product on any older vehicles like these.

Also, I would steer away from purchasing one of these cars that has been repaired in this fashion, or purchase it knowing that I would be looking to redo the repair as previously stated.

For me it is out of place in this application or to be used as a temporary repair, but I absolutely understand why you would consider, and use that method in your situation.

Thanks, Mike H.

 

Edited by mtburger - 28-March-2016 at 6:36AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 6:42AM
Ah, ok... sorry I misunderstood the question.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 7:08AM
mtburger- chances are if you have bought a new car or truck within the last 10-15 years, major panels are glued to the substructure and not welded. I think all of fords pickup boxes for the last 10 years or so have been done this way. Its definitely not to be equated with bondo and window screen "repair" jobs. as far as not being a lasting repair, thats incorrect and you could look and crawl under it for a day and not find anything that looked out of place when done properly. Most body shops who have to warranty their work with insurance companies do it this way nowadays. I look at this as modern and superior way to do some repairs, as well as easier and convenient for someone without a welder. Ever see a replaced floor pan rip along or near the weld since the heat from the weld has now made the old metal weaker? I have.  I'm sure surface preparation would be extremely important, maybe to the point this may rule it out for my situation.

I'm not tryin to be a "askhole" but this is not a temporary or shoddy sort of repair option. I was just curious if anyone here has tried this method out.
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 8:18AM
Originally posted by mtburger mtburger wrote:



I have seen this done and from a technical point of view, there is nothing wrong with it.

Even though I acknowledge that it can be a technically superior and easier repair to complete, I would still go old school, cutting, welding & grinding for a finished product on any older vehicles like these.

I absolutely understand why you would consider, and use that method in your situation.

 


Hello Bob.

I think you may have miss understood my point.

YES, I understand this is newer technology, and along with other forms of newer technology, they have there place, for you this is such a place, for me not so much.

As far as me looking at such a repair, it certainly would not take me a day to see that it looks out of place as you would see it on all the seams and the lack of spot welds is a dead give away.

Also, nowhere did I say it is not a lasting repair, or that it is shoddy, I simply gave my opinion to the question you asked.

Glue away my friend.

Thanks, Mike H.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 10:40AM
I misunderstood what you were asking and now seeing what the real deal is with it...
I say HELL YEAH
If you can make the panels mate up proper and use the right stuff with the right bonding/pressing/holding or whatever process... GO FOR IT!!
 
Great idea to use modern technology on an old school platform.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 12:25PM
Floor repairs were done to my brother's Cutlass this way, and he HAS a welder, and knows how to use it.
For ease of repair on something that won't show... why not?
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 3:19PM
i too mis read the topic at first Embarrassed ( i thought it said panel board as in masonite Shocked)
 i've never used it but i know what you're talking about, as long as the lapped panel fits properly and is properly prepped it should be fine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2016 at 3:39PM
Originally posted by mtburger mtburger wrote:



Also, it is hard for me to get past the thought of grouping this type of repair to being the same as using bondo or fiber-glass to perform rust repair

Also, I would steer away from purchasing one of these cars that has been repaired in this fashion, or purchase it knowing that I would be looking to redo the repair as previously stated.

For me it is out of place in this application or to be used as a temporary repair

Thanks, Mike H.

 


Those were the things you said that made me want to reply back but no problem at all Mike, even though I didn't post this lookin for opinions, I don't mind any. Trust me, with carpet on top of the floor and a coat of por-15 or undercoatin underneath, you'd be hard pressed to tell it apart from a welded seam. There wouldn't be big blobs of this stuff at the panel to old floor seam, as it can be ground and feathered away much like body filler. My car will be intended as a simple driver, not any sort of frame off concours restoration.



Bigbird, thats the sort of thing I wanted to know about, sounds like a viable option then. Did he have any sort of special prep or just ground the flange area down to clean metal, chemical clean and apply adhesive? Love to hear more about his experience with it. Has he had any problems with loss of bond?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-March-2016 at 12:11AM
Works awesome, stronger than the metal it sticks together.  Metal needs to be cleaned and be diligent with seam sealer afterwards, and use in well ventilated area.  Quicker, easier, and stronger. Glue on brother.

Edited by kychevyguy - 29-March-2016 at 12:12AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smhj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-March-2016 at 9:39AM
Somewhere on here maybe (projects updates) someone used it on floor pan repair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-March-2016 at 11:23AM
My brother used it maybe 6-8 years ago. Panels were ground to bare metal & roughed up for the glue, it went on and was weighted until set. Edges were panel sealed and underside sprayed with I think bedliner. No problems so far, but it is a fair-weather garage kept kind of car.
I probably wouldn't use it on a unibody car, simply because it's hard to for me to tell what is and isn't structurally "loaded" on them. (Plus, REAL cars have FRAMES Big smile)
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-August-2017 at 6:56PM
Any update on this?
I remember reading that getting the right clamping force is critical to this working well. Not too much, not too little.
This is something I am considering doing with my floor pans, but I keep going back and forth on it. Resale is not an issue for me. I'll either keep the car til I die or until I get fed up and scrap it.
Thanks,
Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-August-2017 at 2:28AM
Originally posted by russosborne russosborne wrote:

Any update on this?
I remember reading that getting the right clamping force is critical to this working well. Not too much, not too little.
This is something I am considering doing with my floor pans, but I keep going back and forth on it. Resale is not an issue for me. I'll either keep the car til I die or until I get fed up and scrap it.
Thanks,
Russ


No my back got worse and my fathers health also got worse, so went out and bought a low mileage clean base model car to drive right now. when I get a shop put up with a lift, i'll start to work on my 73 fastback. when I do that, i'm sure I'll set a welder up and just do it that way. I think the panel bond route is doable though but i'd still want some sort of mechanical fastener in the way of a few rivets here and there for added insurance/peace of mind. That may even be the way to give the clampin force needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-August-2017 at 9:33AM
My brother did a floor pan on one side of his Cutlass with it. 10 years later, it's still fine. I think he has a few rivets in it, but it got loaded with weights while the epoxy set.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-August-2017 at 9:36AM
Thanks.
 
I get the health issues. Wish I could buy a car to drive for fun for now.

Yeah, if I go this route I would definitely have to have some mechanical fasteners. This stuff isn't cheap, though, which is a big factor for me especially since I have two cheap HF welders already. One is the 110V flux core only and the other is a real (for HF anyway) 220V mig. But I don't have a tank or regulator for that one.
Plus I have almost zero welding experience. Once it gets cooler here I am hoping to get some practice in with some scrap I have. Might not be the exact thickness as the floor pans, but should be close. Old cheaper file cabinets, etc.
I have plenty of spare time right now with no job, but by the time I got out and got an area cleaned up to use I would be drained for the day. I should do that one day, then setup the welder the next, then the next day cut up and prep some metal, then weld the last day. I should do that. Probably won't. I'm not real good at pre planning/prepping. I do better at spur of the moment.

Russ


Edited by russosborne - 09-August-2017 at 9:40AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-August-2017 at 9:50AM
I glued two smaller patches on the floor in my 72. Both areas had pinholes from sand blasting.

1. I sandblasted both sides of the floor top and bottom.
2. Used a grinder on the patch and floor.
3. Cut a small plastic wire tie into (roughly) 1/4" pieces.
4. Taped floor from underneath (holes)
5. Spread an even coat of glue on the floor.
6. Randomly submerged cut pieces of wire tie in the glue.
7. Placed the patch on the glue and used magnets to hold the patch in place.

I used the wire tie pieces to keep the patch from bottoming out on the floor so it had an even coat of adhesive.

I still went with welding though when I did the right rear floor and the one trunk patch over the gas tank reinforcement.`

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/uploads/621/Right_front_patch_2.jpg

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/uploads/621/rt_rear_floor_2.JPG

Edited by lynchster - 09-August-2017 at 9:54AM
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