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Base model Torino CJ/4spd project *update*

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MrSmog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Base model Torino CJ/4spd project *update*
    Posted: 05-February-2016 at 6:57AM
yanked the starter off to check block ID, shows to be the cobra jet block, has 2v heads and a 70 351 4v intake. I think swappin over to the 2v heads was a good street hop up to regain some power down low and pretty common to do. I have never played around with clevelands before, always 351 windsors or 429's.










I'm a little corn-fused, why does it say "0" with these paint/trim codes and then shows 561 with that paint code?


Edited by MrSmog - 02-April-2017 at 9:19AM
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-February-2016 at 11:13AM
Originally posted by MrSmog MrSmog wrote:

yanked the starter off to check block ID, shows to be the cobra jet block, has 2v heads and a 70 351 4v intake. I think swappin over to the 2v heads was a good street hop up to regain some power down low and pretty common to do. I have never played around with clevelands before, always 351 windsors or 429's. 
2v heads with a factory 4v intake should have a serious port mis-match...
Shouldn't help performance at all. There are/were aftermarket 4v intakes for 2v heads.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-February-2016 at 11:21AM
" I'm a little corn-fused, why does it say "0" with these paint/trim codes and then shows 561 with that paint code? "

 i was wondering the same thing!???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-February-2016 at 11:45AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Originally posted by MrSmog MrSmog wrote:

yanked the starter off to check block ID, shows to be the cobra jet block, has 2v heads and a 70 351 4v intake. I think swappin over to the 2v heads was a good street hop up to regain some power down low and pretty common to do. I have never played around with clevelands before, always 351 windsors or 429's. 
2v heads with a factory 4v intake should have a serious port mis-match...
Shouldn't help performance at all. There are/were aftermarket 4v intakes for 2v heads.


Exactly what I was thinkin, I know people run em this way, but if i end up keepin or swappin this drivetrain into another body, it will get a edelbrock performer or similar for the 2v heads for sure.

Another thing thats puzzles me is the 45 for the engine/trans combo and 20 for the rallye equipment group. To get the 351cj you had to get the rallye equipment group, so shouldn't the number for the rallye equipment group be higher, even if some people opted for another engine (351 2v/302/429) instead of the 351cj as a downgrade/upgrade option?


Edited by MrSmog - 05-February-2016 at 12:05PM
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GTW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-February-2016 at 1:06PM
i know the 4 speed was included in the Rallye Equipment Group, and I don't think the CJ was.

Also, put me in the "that car is too rare to not restore" camp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-February-2016 at 1:19PM
Originally posted by GTW GTW wrote:

i know the 4 speed was included in the Rallye Equipment Group, and I don't think the CJ was.

Also, put me in the "that car is too rare to not restore" camp.


I was goin off this, check out the way things are worded for the rallye group "Rallye Equipment Group (Includes 351 CID 4V 8‑cylinder, four‑speed manual transmission, competition suspen�sion with rear stabilizer bar, G70 x 14 wide oval belted B/ WL tires with 6" wide rims and instrumentation group.) (Available only on 2‑door models. Also, 429 CID 4V engine and Cruise‑O‑Matic transmission available at extra cost. N.A. with electric clock or on Gran Torino Brougham.)"

http://grantorinosport.org/73torino04.htm


If the body wasn't so shot, I'd agree but its not cost effective for me to try and fix this one. I'll have to take some good pics of the body and you'll see what I mean. Yes I know it can be saved with enough money thrown at it, but even if I had it to spend on a "toy", I wouldn't do it. All I want is a nice rust free 4spd driver.  If someone wants to trade me a solid, good runnin and drivin 4spd torino or ranchero for this one, i'd be open to it.
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote torinojon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-February-2016 at 3:35PM
the rallye equipment group was a combination of things for the 351cj or 429 auto.no 4 speed with 429.the package was 351 cj, 4speed, competition  suspension with rear stabilizer bar instrumentation group and g70 or h70 tires.this was 442.37 for base torino and gran torino.the 429 got the c6 auto not the 4speed at no extra cost.so that group package was not on all 351 cj 4 speed cars.
http://forum.grantorinosport.org/uploads/3190/marti5.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote torinojon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-February-2016 at 3:38PM
just a heads up.just because you see a 351 block with the dash ca dose not mean 4bolt main.i seen it as a 2 bolt and a 4 bolt.the date says it should be a 4bolt main. 
http://forum.grantorinosport.org/uploads/3190/marti5.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-February-2016 at 3:43PM
Originally posted by torinojon torinojon wrote:

the rallye equipment group was a combination of things for the 351cj or 429 auto.no 4 speed with 429.the package was 351 cj, 4speed, competition  suspension with rear stabilizer bar instrumentation group and g70 or h70 tires.this was 442.37 for base torino and gran torino.the 429 got the c6 auto not the 4speed at no extra cost.so that group package was not on all 351 cj 4 speed cars.


ahh ok, so it was possible to get the 351cj/4sp in a base without the rallye pkg.

Yea I know Ford used whatever they had on hand as far as 2 and 4 bolt mains, I have heard other stories of mix matched engines etc in Fords back then.
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote torinojon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-February-2016 at 3:22AM
if it was a factory 4bolt it got it.if it was a 2bolt motor it got it.im just saying that the dash ca blocks came both ways.if your looking at a motor to buy you would need to pull the pan to check the mains if it had no heads. the date code on your motor is in the date of build so it should be 4 bolt but with the other parts change i would pull the pan anyways. check the back of the block for a vin stamp to see if its the motor to the car.
http://forum.grantorinosport.org/uploads/3190/marti5.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-February-2016 at 4:22PM
I like THIS report. it shows the REAL numbers.
 
only 45 Base model 72 Torino's EVER came with the Q-Code/4-spd
 
only 20 Base model 72 Torino's EVER came with the Rallye Equipment
 
only 6(is that what is says?) Base model 72 Torino's EVER came with this color AND trim package
 
so the other report will show that your car...
20,000(example) 72 Base Model Torinos were made
45 with this engine/tranny
OF THAT ONLY
(20 or less) came with the Rallye Group(the number 20 is TOTAL that came, so maybe 12? of those 20 were in the 45 with that engine/tranny) 
OF THAT ONLY
(less than 6) came in this color/trim(the number 6 is TOTAL that came, so maybe 1 or 2? of those 6 were in the 45 with that engine/tranny and the 12 or so that were that color/trim) 
OF THAT ONLY
1 came with the special order gear ratio...
YOURS IS THAT CAR 
 
you SERIOUSLY have the ULTIMATE HOLY GRAIL OF 72 Torinos!!
More rare than ANY of the 72 Gran Torinos!
LESS of your car came out of the factory than the factory 50 or so Ram Air set ups in the 72 Gran Torino/Rancheros!!!
 
Time to dig in and check the block for any VIN IDs!
Original engine would make it even more AWESOME!
I would rebuild it. it will take a ton of work but it would be worth it in the long run.
 
IF I had the cash I would be making an offer and then rebuilding it!
I have seen some pretty far gone rot boxes get fixed!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-February-2016 at 5:10PM
Thats not a "6" on that paint trim codes, its a "0", which i am not sure what that means? I'll try to get some pics tomorrow of the rot, its pretty nasty, especially in the cowl/door jamb area. I guess I can always park it out back, use the drivetrain or just the 4spd part of it in a driver until I hit the lotto and just want to throw truck loads of money at it lol    unless someone wants to trade a solid 4 spd torino/ranchero driver for it or make me an offer i can't refuse?
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-February-2016 at 8:03PM
There is a 74 for sale with the drivetrain that you are looking for (not original). The seller did not say what year the engine is though. If you want to see it Click here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2016 at 3:14AM
Originally posted by dave302 dave302 wrote:

There is a 74 for sale with the drivetrain that you are looking for (not original). The seller did not say what year the engine is though. If you want to see it Click here.


not bad at all, the west coast has all the deals on them it seems. I had seen a nice solid and runnin 72 and 73 rancheros for a package price of 4500 in wa state. Here close to me, they have rusted out junk and want $5k for em  lol 
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2016 at 3:32AM
Originally posted by MrSmog MrSmog wrote:

I guess I can use the drivetrain or just the 4spd part of it in a driver.
There is one for sale which had originally came with a 351C 4V and a 4 speed transmission. Now it has a 351M 2V with a 3 speed automatic transmission.
I think that the seller wrote that the 4 speed pedals (clutch and brake) are still installed in it. And it has the factory tach and rear end in it. He said that it does run. If you want to see it Click here.

Edited by dave302 - 08-February-2016 at 3:33AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2016 at 4:09AM
Originally posted by dave302 dave302 wrote:

Originally posted by MrSmog MrSmog wrote:

I guess I can use the drivetrain or just the 4spd part of it in a driver.
There is one for sale which had originally came with a 351C 4V and a 4 speed transmission. Now it has a 351M 2V with a 3 speed automatic transmission.
I think that the seller wrote that the 4 speed pedals (clutch and brake) are still installed in it. And it has the factory tach and rear end in it. He said that it does run. If you want to see it Click here.


price is right but thats a crusty one. Good thing is, there are PLENTY of these cars around from coast to coast. I missed out on a rust free 1973 base model in id for 1600, perfect interior, body had some dents but not a pinhole of rust ANYWHERE. Was all original down to the dog dish hub caps, but just a hair too late to the game. heres a few decent rancheros I have found, but I'd like to hold out for a 73 formal roof car if possible. I got plenty of time to put one together and there is no shortage of these cars, just a shortage of realistic prices on them. I guess we can Thank Starsky and Hutch and Clint Eastwood for that lol

http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5438509034.html
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5438531899.html
http://yakima.craigslist.org/cto/5438088090.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/5431678457.html
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2016 at 5:02AM
There is another one for sale but it is a gran model. The seller needs to sell it fast, so he might even lower the price. If you want to see it Click here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2016 at 4:02PM
that one in portland looks like a pretty good car, if you are serious about it, let me know... i live about an hour north of there! Wink
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
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77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2016 at 5:07PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

that one in portland looks like a pretty good car, if you are serious about it, let me know... i live about an hour north of there! Wink


Thanks I appreciate that. I have had a Ranchero and several El Caminos over the years. I'm Really tryin hard to find a 73 Torino formal roof but when I get tired of lookin for exactly what I want, I may just put a nice solid Ranchero together. That one does look nice, would look slick with the base model front end setup on it. I found a 73 fastback not too far from me, but little bit crustier then I'd like to mess with. It would look good with that base front end too. So if the right fastback comes along, i may just do that. I been busy buyin vehicles to part out the last few days. Got a nice 87 gt mustang yesterday and gonna pick up a 97 v8 explorer 4wd tomorrow.
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2016 at 3:21PM
There is a car for sale, but the seller did not say if it is a two door or four door though. If you want to see it Click here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-March-2016 at 5:11PM
*Update*

Went and got a 73 fastback today,extremely solid and near rust free body (by eastern standards needs some floor pan/trunk pan/minor trunk weatherstrip flange work, but thats about it). So looks like I'll build a base version of a 73 fastback. I'll put some pics up of the fastback when i get some time.


Edited by MrSmog - 17-March-2016 at 1:21PM
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-March-2016 at 12:36AM
Congratulations! Those parts are ready whenever you need them.

Just a thought - After you pull what you need off the '73 Formal, you should put it up on CL for sale as a shell with a good title. There may be someone around that wants to restore it to it's original state. I know it's rusty, but there are parts available for someone with that want to build it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-March-2016 at 4:08AM
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

Congratulations! Those parts are ready whenever you need them.

Just a thought - After you pull what you need off the '73 Formal, you should put it up on CL for sale as a shell with a good title. There may be someone around that wants to restore it to it's original state. I know it's rusty, but there are parts available for someone with that want to build it.



Thanks, as soon as I get caught up on a few things around here (also known as the never endin list) the next couple days, i can probably head over your way to get that stuff. I think its only a 4 hr ride. I plan to swap all the man steerin/perf suspension parts/ralleye package/base model specific trim over to the fastback and remove every bit of the "sport stuff". There won't be much if any of the "good stuff' left on the formal roof. I'll put it out back up high on blocks, maybe I'll use it next year for a deer stand lol 

The fastback is a AC car, don't know if I'll just leave the ac box and controls in or if I'll find a donor firewall (not gonna cut my formals up) from a non ac car and do it up that way. I'd rather do the latter just to clean up the engine compartment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2017 at 10:17AM


ok another *update*.   Since my back has gotten worse, I just can't rebuild these cars out in a barn layin on the ground like I used to. So the search was on for a very solid base model car that i could basically drive as is. went and got this yesterday, its a 73 302/c4 base model with only 37k miles, been garage kept its entire life. I'm the 3rd owner and the guy i got it from only put 3k miles on it in the last few years. It has dings, scratches and minor oopsies but is as original a car as I have seen. Has new tires on it that look great, but they were new in 1979 lol  Plans for it now are minor. 80's ford am/fm cassette and some new speakers, pertronix to replace the points and a set of tires. My father's health isn't the greatest, so i'd simply like to cruise a lot this summer with him. after I get a shop with a lift put up, then i'll build a correct 73 351cj and swap the car over to the 4cpd/comp suspension/ralleye pkg and race it at the pure stock drags. This car even has a rubber floor, I hope I can source one for a 4 spd when the times comes. I couldn't put a car together this nice for anywhere near what I paid for it.



















Edited by MrSmog - 27-April-2017 at 3:53AM
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote torino335 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2017 at 12:18PM
wow,thats looks to be in very good condition,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2017 at 12:31PM
Clap you got your car finally! Thumbs Up damn that is in nice condition!!!!
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74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2017 at 2:06PM
yea its in very good shape, still has most of the factory paint on the frame and suspension. Its never had any paint or body work but I may try to get a few places spotted in for added protection.
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote torino335 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2017 at 3:01PM
got a question mr smog wasnt all 351 cj 4 bolt main? never seen one with 2 bolt main,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2017 at 3:20PM
Nice car, very clean! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-April-2017 at 3:22PM
Originally posted by torino335 torino335 wrote:

got a question mr smog wasnt all 351 cj 4 bolt main? never seen one with 2 bolt main,


I'm FAR from a expert on clevelands but from what I have "read", they(cobra jets only) are supposed to all be 4 bolt main, but ford used what ford had on hand at times. 4 bolt mains aren't really anything special other then bein able to say "I got 4 bolt mains". They are supposed to be a bit stronger but I question that.  when I build a motor up for the pure stocks I am gonna use whatever I have on hand, hopefully I'm able to find a block with a primo standard bore. I think bore condition and size are more important then 4 bolt main with clevelands and what little I have learned about them.


Edited by MrSmog - 02-April-2017 at 3:41PM
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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