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Carburetor changeover

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ml7burbank View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24-July-2020 at 3:14AM
Hello.  I could use some advice.  

I have a '71 Torino GT convertible with 351, 2V.  I've had several carburetor issues which were not resolved with a rebuild. My mechanic has advised me to replace existing carburetor with a Holley 2 barrel, 350 CFM, manual choke model.  Could I possibly upgrade to a 4 barrel with new intake manifold without too much hassle?  

Thank you for any input you may have.
Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2020 at 8:39AM
Don't see any issues that can't be fixed on a Ford 2 Bbl.
A drunken squirrel could rebuild one while sniffing model airplane glue and it would work fine.
That being said, you can get a 4v intake for a 351c 2v engine. Make sure that you get one for 2v heads, as the intake ports are different/smaller.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ml7burbank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2020 at 9:19AM
Thanks for the info!  (My mechanic is really good but a young guy....apparently doesn't see a lot of carburetor work).
Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2020 at 10:32AM
pull the carb back off and check the gasket under the EGR plate. good chance this gaskets was the issue from the start and never addressed and removing the carb further disturbed it. that gasket under the EGR plate is not a carb gasket, it's an exhaust gasket! it has to be exhaust rated or it'll burn through in short time.

examine the EGR plate carefully, they're known for clogging up and burning through, causing a vacuum leak. a failure of the EGR gasket or the plate would give the same symptoms as a 'carb issue'. are you ready to spend $500-700 or more to swap up to a 4bbl, and open up a new can of 'issues' in the process?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ml7burbank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2020 at 10:47AM
Thank you!  Sounds like great advice.  I'm meeting up with my mechanic this weekend and will pass along your suggestion....keep you posted.
Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2020 at 2:03PM
and do a deep dive inspection of all vacuum hoses Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2020 at 2:50PM
 did the 71's have an EGR ?? but if it has the aluminum plate under the carb check it for any blow though spots  and any vacuum leaks!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2020 at 5:13PM
John, within this old post you mention the aluminum plate directly under the carb on a 71. Starting at the top it goes carb/gasket/aluminum plate...is there supposed to be a gasket or some type of sealant between the aluminum plate and the intake manifold ? Is the aluminum plate a requirement ? This question is a part of my chasing down of a manifold leak on my previous post.
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2020 at 12:07PM
Gaskets between each part. Leaving one out will make a vacuum leak.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2020 at 12:10PM
And thats why I bought two gaskets.....LOL    Thanks
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2020 at 2:01PM
Another question, the motor I am working with is a 1971 351C 2bbl. I am working with the original carb and I think it is boiling the fuel in the carb bowl. Car runs almost perfect in the shop, take it out for a 5 mile run and upon return the carb is leaking at the base and very hard to start unless you open the throttle right up and crank it many, many times. I have yet to check the float level. Is there supposed to be a spacer between the carb and intake ( but not a EGR spacer ). I have a 3/8 inch spacer in my pile of used parts and maybe I should put it on ? Currently there is a paper thin metal spacer but I am thinking maybe the correct spacer is missing. IF I ad the 3/8 spacer the length of the mounting studs will be a challenge but will work with no threads to spare....Advice please .....
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2020 at 2:50PM
Most fuel airing issues are from the lines getting too hot, as they route along the engine to the carb. The carburetor isn't really a problem for that. But definitely be sure there are gaskets between each layer, and any spacer can help with that cooling.
Don
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears, to build a keeper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2020 at 3:48PM
the gasket between the manifold and the EGR spacer should be exhaust rated if you want it to last,

not just a regular carb gasket
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2020 at 3:58PM
Thanks, all advice is appreciated........ I did install a fuel pressure regulator that is close to the passenger side valve cover, also near the heater hose lines. That plus I expect a certain amount of fuel is sitting in the body of the regulator ( back pressure ) and just heating up before moving on to the carb. I guess changes will have to be made.

Edited by Rivercrest - 16-October-2020 at 4:04PM
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2020 at 4:59PM
heated lines will mostly cause a vapor lock, but i have solid plastic phenolic spacers on many of my cars that really reduces the boilover effect!Wink or heat soak if you will.and if you have a holley or edelbock square bore carb they can be bought from several suppliers on ebay for $10- 15 with gaskets and studs included Wink
 if you have the 4300 spreadbore cleveland carb i'm sure rock has a handy link to one to fit thatBig smile
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2020 at 5:04PM
my bad i skipped over reading that you had a 2bbl, im sure they are available for them too?...
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-October-2020 at 6:55AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-October-2020 at 10:02AM
In my walker carb repair kit ( 15593D ) it came with a 3/8 inch spacer that looks promising, but I don't know if it is compatible with manifold heat, and box came without any instructions. I also have two regular gaskets that I bought local. Also on my work bench is the 1/8 inch aluminum plate that came factory with the 71 Cleveland engine 2bbl. Now the question is what parts do I use (or not) and what is the proper order of assembly. On a side note, today I completely relocated the fuel pressure regulator to just above the power steering pump, plenty of air flow going on there I hope. THANKS for any advice given.
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-October-2020 at 5:06PM
the thick insulator gaskets are good for directly under the carb, rut again i wouldn't press one of those into service between the manifold and EGR spacer. Rock-auto (pun intended) is a great reference resource even if you're going to buy local. i have an extremely Angry time using some of the discount chain websites sometimes to the point of giving up.

now i just notice up above you're working on a 1971 351C-2V, is there an EGR spacer plate present on this engine? R/A does not show the EGR to manifold gasket for a 1971 but i believe some did use them. they do show the gasket for 1975 though. STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS VG206 contains 3 gaskets, 1 is the exhaust rated gasket i'm stuck on LOL. there's another brand listed that i'd pass on, the gasket looks to be of light duty material. IMO a classic case of you get what you pay for, $0.44. these are found under the sub-header 'EGR Valve Spacer Plate Gasket' which in turn is under 'Exhaust & Emissions'

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1975,gran+torino,5.8l+351cid+v8,1129531,exhaust+&+emission

what is this 1/8" aluminum plate? does the intake manifold have a functional carb heat passage drilled through
in a 'worm channel' in the carb pad beside the throttle bores, but no EGR plate?

is this 1971 351C-2V in your 74 Cougar or something else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2020 at 6:29AM
EGR didn't come in until 1973.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2020 at 7:16AM
Quote : what is this 1/8" aluminum plate? does the intake manifold have a functional carb heat passage drilled through
in a 'worm channel' in the carb pad beside the throttle bores, but no EGR plate?

is this 1971 351C-2V in your 74 Cougar or something else?

Yes, this motor (1971) is in my '74 Cougar.....The thin metal plate is over top of the worm channel. There was a thin gasket between this plate and the manifold but after 49 years it has burnt away. Go figger. Then there was a fabric gasket and then the carb. I have limitations for remounting the carb considering the length of the studs but I could put in the spacer I have which came with the walker carb rebuild kit. No picture of this gasket on their instructional website. No EGR vaive on this puppy. I want to do the best I can the first time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2020 at 8:34AM
If that thin AL plate is just sealing the intake surface, and the minimal thermal barrier, you can skip the gasket and use just a thin film of RTV, Ultra black or copper etc. Those can seal any two surfaces well and not be affected by heat or most chemicals.

Can you post a picture of the intake and carb surfaces being mated/sealed together?
Don
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears, to build a keeper
73 Ranchero Sport "72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 351-3V &4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2020 at 10:30AM
So here are some pics, taking VOTES now on which parts to use, including RTV sealant only as an option...........note the gasket material that was on the manifold side of the aluminum plate. Note: manifold has been cleaned up today.
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2020 at 10:32AM
Is that what u call a worm channel and what good is it ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2020 at 2:06PM
As I continue on with trying to correct a small vacuum leak, I also had the issue of car won't start easily when recently shut off. Reading previous posts I decided to remove the carb as I noticed vapor(s) coming out of the carb horn area. I could see gas seeping into the carb with an inspection mirror and a flashlight. Long story short, I pretty much determined the gas in the bowl was slowly dropping when the car was off. ( Lid removed.) This afternoon I rebuilt the carb, all new parts, and the vapor issue/hard starting when warm problem is now gone. Also my vacuum has gone up a couple of inches. I am pretty convinced the accelerator pump check valve was leaking......time will tell. Just some information for everyone of the forum. FOOTNOTE: I also decided to reinstall the metal plate I talked about earlier, using some RTV, thanks for that advice, and put the new (carb kit supplied) fabric gasket between the metal plate and the base of the carb, hope it stays leak free.

Edited by Rivercrest - 18-October-2020 at 2:12PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2020 at 5:29PM
Four hours later I went out and started the car, it fired right up and idled smooth.....tomorrow will be another test. Probably skip the road test-snow has fallen here tonight.
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-October-2020 at 1:55AM
Excellent, glad to hear good news sometimes.
Don
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears, to build a keeper
73 Ranchero Sport "72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 351-3V &4R70W
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE, OBDII 347/4R70W
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