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classic tube frustration nd cyl 2 prop confirmaton

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tonym9 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22-March-2014 at 7:19AM
Questions at bottom.

Okay, so several years ago I ordered S/S brake lines from Classic Tube. The whole kit and it was pricey. Specifically for a 72 GTSFB. I had to rebend alot of rear line in many areas but made it work. I thought one line from master cyl to prop valve had the wrong sized fitting on it, so I just reused my old one and drove the car a little bit (less than 50 miles). Then parked it for a good long while, till it finally came up in the project rotation again.

So I'm reassembling everything after the tear down, and wanted to use the complete kit. Starting taking a very close look at things. 

1. The right front and left front lines are switched, I didn't realize this when I put them on a few years ago. Discovered it digging through some prop valve stuff I had. Not a big deal, but the lines are bent almost at a 90 to get to the prop valve, and rebending them to go on the right way at those spots will be risky...kinks are highly possible. You'd think they would have realized the long line for the right front needs to come out of the bottom of the prop valve, not the top. 

2. They put the wrong size fittings on the 2 lines coming out of the master cylinder. One line could be used, and I didn't catch it at the time. I crossed front/back to use one of the two supplied lines. I used my old line for the completed cross and didn't catch it. Angry  That could have been really really bad had I needed to use heavy brake pressure...locking the rears and almost no pressure at front would have had me torpedoing something....Angry Angry Angry

After realizing my mistake, I have 2 lines that don't fit. I need one fitting to be a 1/2 (they used 9/16) and I need one fitting to be 7/16 (they used a 1/2)...and I need to rebend used brake lines for the front. 

I'm so tired of paying top dollar for chit that either doesn't work or fits a Mustang. This kit was specifically for 72 GTSFB!!!

Just to make sure I'm right about this can someone confirm the following for my wagner electric design. I don't have the Kelsey Hayes:

1. Right front line comes out of the bottom of the prop valve
2. Left front line comes out of the top of the prop valve
3. The reservoirs in the master cylinder correspond to the prop valve...in other words the line at the back of the master cyl goes to the back of the prop valve, and the line at the front of the master cylinder goes to the front of the prop valve.....I'm tired and am having a brain fart on such a simple topic...can't believe I'm asking that one. 

TIA
72 GTSFB
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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 8:58AM
i just checked on my 74 master cylinder/ prop valve :  the smaller fitting at the front of the master goes to the rear of the prop valve, the larger at the rear of the master goes to the center of the prop valve, front brake lines: top front of prop to right front disc caliper, bottom front prop to the left front disc caliper . so re: #3 no (at least not as far as my 74) they criss-cross, as far as the front lines coming out of the prop valve, basically they just "t" off at the prop (so if they are switched i may not matter, BUT if the master supply lines are wrong the brakes wound work "screwy" like you thought
 hope this helps!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonym9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 9:19AM
If I'm reading this correctly the right front pass side comes out the underneath front of the prop valve, and the left front drivers side comes out the first outlet on the front top of the prop valve. 

Thing is I don't remember anything screwy with the brakes, and I did a full brake job to include hard test and burn in of pads...it seemed to be fine. 

Need some confirmation this diagram is right. 

I don't have one master cyl to prop. So they do cross? Front of master to rear of prop, back of master to front of prop????

72 GTSFB
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tonym9 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonym9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 9:25AM
man i'm tired. i can't think straight right now. stupid little things are causing my brain to fry. CAL JOHNNY: can you take a pic for me...having trouble following you...not your writing, my lack of brain power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 9:52AM
what i meant by screwy is if you were to switch the front and rear brake line from the master
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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green 72 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote green 72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 10:12AM
I just checked my 72 and they are like John said. On the master the front chamber is the smaller chamber and that is for the rear brakes.So the back reservoir goes to the front of the proportioning valve and the front goes to the rear of the valve.


Edited by green 72 - 22-March-2014 at 10:19AM
Dan                             1972 GTS Formal       
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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 10:24AM
sorry - best i can do for pics!
the green masking tape shows the front brake supply
view from the engine side



Edited by californiajohnny - 22-March-2014 at 10:34AM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 10:27AM
this is a view from tire side  (the brass plug is where brake warning switch is)
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 10:32AM
this is the rear brake supply (white teflon tape)  view from the engine side

view from the tire side

JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 10:43AM
Here's a pic of my ('76) proportioning valve just prior to removal. The red caps are the lines from the master cylinder, rear brake line comes out back of prop valve, left front line comes from bottom front and the right front line comes out top front port.....
 
 
Hope this helps......


Edited by TV 2M8O - 22-March-2014 at 10:44AM
[IMG]uploads/925/2M8OGIF.gif[IMG]
TV 2M8O OUT
JOE
1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 1:55PM
Having just done this, I always order from InLineTube.com. Have had great luck with them over the years. They always get one fitting wrong at the master cylinder, but they have corrected that for me. Otherwise it was a 100% fit on my 75 Sport.
Scott Eklund

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tonym9 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonym9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 3:03PM
Wow, you guys are awesome. CA J thank you for the detailed pics. 

I'm not sure why that prop valve schematic is so wrong, but it threw me a big curve. 

The crisscross from the master also threw me

So I'm back to having just one wrong fitting. 

Big thanks to y'all
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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2014 at 4:11PM
you can get adapter bushings for brake fittings most any good parts stores should have one that you need, they look kinda like the fittings where your tranny lines connect to the tranny
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2014 at 1:50AM
If you can't find the adapters and need to reflare any lines once you install the correct fitting(s), try this tool.

This is one of the best tools I have ever purchased, especially satisfying when a tool does what it should EVERY time. It is a bit pricey but you will actually look forward to flaring lines instead of cursing the situation. You can find them on Eastwood's website, worth every penny IMO. Good luck, Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2014 at 5:01AM
awesome! thanks todd, i've been looking for years to find one that will do a double flare the right way perfectly, i've tried several of the wingnut type that claim to do double flares, but never could get them to work right. i watched their video on it and i'm sold, i'm going to get one! Thumbs Up
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2014 at 8:13AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

awesome! thanks todd, i've been looking for years to find one that will do a double flare the right way perfectly, i've tried several of the wingnut type that claim to do double flares, but never could get them to work right. i watched their video on it and i'm sold, i'm going to get one! Thumbs Up


It works exactly like the video, I threw out all my other double flaring tools. I believe you will be just as impressed as I am with it's operation. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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