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Clutch Fan Conversion

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72FordGTS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Clutch Fan Conversion
    Posted: 17-August-2016 at 4:13PM
My car has a direct drive mechanical 4 blade fan and I'd like to convert it to a clutch fan for better cooling, less noise and less hp loss.  I was thinking of using a Hayden 18" fan, part 3618 but wasn't sure on the cutch to use for proper placement.  Right now my car has a 2" spacer from the water pump to the fan. I looked up a clutch for 1978 Lincoln Mark V with a 400 V8, and it shows Hayden Clutch 2710.  It you look up the same car with a 460, it shows a shorter clutch which makes sense since it's bigger engine.  I figured since the Mark V uses the same chassis as the Torino (just longer in the middle) and with a 400 V8 (335 series engine) the distance from the engine to rad should be the same?
Anyone know if this clutch will work?
 
Hayden 3618 Fan:
 
 
Here's the specs on the 2710 Clutch:
 
DescriptionValue
Mounting Hole/Stud Qty4
Bolt Quantity4
Bolt Thread5/16" - 18
Bolt Thread5/16-18 Hole
Clutch TypeB - Non-Thermal & Std Thermal
ColorRaw Aluminum in Color
DescriptionFan Clutches
Drawing TypeB
Duty RatingStandard
Electronic Fan Clutch?Non Electronic
Fan Bolt Circle "IN"3.000
Fan Mount Dia. "IN"2.370
Fan Mount Height "IN"1.750
MaterialAluminum
Meets or Exceeds OEM Specs?Yes
Mount Dia. "IN"2.33
Mount TypeFlange
Mounting Hardware Included?Not Included
New or RemanufacturedNew
Original Equipment Replacement?Yes
Overall Dia. "IN"7.200
Overall Height "IN"3.296875
Performance Rated?Yes
Pilot Depth "IN"0.750
Pilot Dia. "IN".63 to .75
RotationSTD
StyleStandard Duty
TypeThermal
Wire GuageUses Original Equipment Connector
Wire QuantityUses Original Equipment Connector
 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 12:49AM
I went through this a little when shooting for the best in cooling fan/fan clutch. A Hayden 2711 will also fit and it is about 5/16"-3/8" shorter, to accurately choose the right one will depend on the relationship between fan blade/shroud placement, the fan blade "should" be a bit over 1/2-way into shroud-closer to the radiator(or just less than 1/2-way out) for best performance . I have a factory 7 blade clutch fan that will fit this clutch (if you are interested). If you want the "ultimate" cooling from a factory based fan clutch/clutch fan get a clutch fan for a mid-late 70's F250-F350 w/ 460 and a Hayden 2799 fan clutch. I have both of these fans and the truck fan has a bit more pitch to the blades. Couple of pics:
 
D9ME-copy of '75-'76 T-bird clutch fan, has 3.00" bolt circle
 
D6TE SD clutch fan, has 3.25" bolt circle.
 
Hope this info is helpful.
BTW, Hayden changed their #'s for whatever reason, original 2710 is now 215011 and the 2711 is now 215012.


Edited by aquartlow - 18-August-2016 at 12:52AM
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 6:17AM
Hey Todd, thanks for the response.  The 2711 is the clutch they list for the cars with the 460, that's why I figured the smaller 335 series engines used a longer 2710 since they are physically shorted.  Maybe I will just order the 2710 locally and try the fit.  My parts store is usually okay for returns.
 
I would be interested in that fan, at lest the smaller 18" T-Bird fan.  My shroud will not take the larger truck fan and I don't think I need that much cooling anyway.  I'll PM you.
 
If anyone else has done this conversion with a car that has a 351C/400/351M or has a factory setup, please let me know what you used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 9:56AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Hey Todd, thanks for the response.  The 2711 is the clutch they list for the cars with the 460, that's why I figured the smaller 335 series engines used a longer 2710 since they are physically shorted.  Maybe I will just order the 2710 locally and try the fit.  My parts store is usually okay for returns.
 
I would be interested in that fan, at lest the smaller 18" T-Bird fan.  My shroud will not take the larger truck fan and I don't think I need that much cooling anyway.  I'll PM you.
 
If anyone else has done this conversion with a car that has a 351C/400/351M or has a factory setup, please let me know what you used.
 
Vince,
 I sent you a PM, shipping charge is fairly STEEP between the U.S. and Canada. I will say and some may not want to hear this or will agree with it, but the best thing I did for my cooling system was converting over to dual electric fans and adjustable fan controllers. More power, better MPG and better control in cooling.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 11:43AM
Thanks Todd.  I replied, and at that price I will pass.  I know electric is the best, but a  clutch fan is a lot cheaper and better than my crappy 4 blade mechanical. My car is good for cooling most of the time but was running hot in a cruise this year (lots of stop and go and idling).  To do electric, I'd probably have to swap my alternator to 3G too.

Edited by 72FordGTS - 18-August-2016 at 11:44AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 1:19PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Thanks Todd.  I replied, and at that price I will pass.  I know electric is the best, but a  clutch fan is a lot cheaper and better than my crappy 4 blade mechanical. My car is good for cooling most of the time but was running hot in a cruise this year (lots of stop and go and idling).  To do electric, I'd probably have to swap my alternator to 3G too.
 
 I didn't think my fan price was out of line, the shipping was another issue. Installing a 3G "should" be at the top of everyone's list, worth every penny. One good thing here in the states is that having a U-pull-it yard makes upgrades CHEEP. A recently remanned 3G can be bought for $25 or less and an electric cooling fan assembly for about the same, although I went with a new assembly after I did all the mock-up with a used part. Good luck and hope the fan clutch/clutch fan assembly install goes smoothly. Todd  
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 1:37PM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

 I didn't think my fan price was out of line, the shipping was another issue.
 
Todd your price the fan was more than fair, I meant the shipping cost was way too high!  We lost our U-pull-it yards around here years ago.  Wrecking yards are now basically used parts stores and their prices aren't much cheaper than new parts. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 2:21PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

 I didn't think my fan price was out of line, the shipping was another issue.
 
Todd your price the fan was more than fair, I meant the shipping cost was way too high!  We lost our U-pull-it yards around here years ago.  Wrecking yards are now basically used parts stores and their prices aren't much cheaper than new parts. 
 
Vince,
 Thank you for clarifying. So your wrecking yards are kinda like our pawn shops, buy it used for 95% of what new would be and usually without any type of warranty. Once again, hope you get what you need without the high shipping costs involved. Todd 
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 4:25PM
the used parts business isn't like it used to be, lots of epa and govt related costs these days. Also the cost of cars for inventory aren't cheap anymore either. When I last worked at a yard about 6 years ago, we couldn't buy wrecks at the auction and make any money on them. Most went to mexico or even further south. they drove the prices up so high, American buyers couldn't buy them and make a buck. Not sure why they'll pay so much for them but they do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2016 at 4:02PM

I ended up ordering a Hayden fan and will try the 2710 clutch first.  I will post my results here for anyone interested in this conversion.

FWIW, I found the old post Todd made with a link to the HP loss related to fans and HP loss. Obviously the Electric is the best, but there is a pretty big difference between the mechanical 4 blade to a clutch fan.  They actually use a Flexalite 5718 which is the same made by Hayden and identical to the 3618 fan I just ordered.  There is a big difference between the worst and best fan, but the clutch fan (non-HD) is by far the best mechanical fan setup for efficiency.  Keep in mind that a normal non-HD clutch will only spin a fan at up to 60% of engine speed when locked, while only 20% when unlocked.  A HD clutch fan is up to 90% of engine speed when locked which is why HD trucks use them.
 
 
 
 


Edited by 72FordGTS - 01-September-2016 at 2:45PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-August-2016 at 3:06PM
So I ended up getting all the parts and doing the conversion.  The Hayden 3618, or Flexalite 5718, works perfectly.  The 2710 clutch also works well, although it's a maybe 1/8" shorter than my original fan spacer used with the four blade fan.  As a result the fan is slightly closer to the engine side of the shround rather than perfectly centered.  In any case so far it seems to working great, much less fan noise than the stock direct drive and I am sure it should cool better in slow moving traffic compared the four blade fan.  Overall it's a great and cheap conversion for anyone looking to get ride of their mechanical direct drive fan.
 
I included a bunch of photos for reference:
 
 
Four Blade fan in shroud
 
 
Clutch fan Installed
 

 
Clutch Fan in Shroud
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-August-2016 at 3:38PM
what was the total cost on that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-August-2016 at 3:57PM
that distance from the shroud should be fine! honestly i don't know how those POS 4 blade stock fans ever cooled anything ConfusedThumbs Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2016 at 11:45AM
Originally posted by MrSmog MrSmog wrote:

what was the total cost on that?
 
It's about $58 in parts from Rockauto plus shipping.  Pretty cheap upgrade for all new parts.  I think you can get the fan from Summit, but it's a bit more money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robot9000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2016 at 8:01AM
I also just upgraded from that nasty 4 blade to a clutch setup.  

Derale 17118, 18in fan $34 from Summit
Hayden 2710 clutch $35 also from summit.

Temps were lower idling through the Woodward Cruise this year.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2016 at 2:42PM
Originally posted by robot9000 robot9000 wrote:

I also just upgraded from that nasty 4 blade to a clutch setup.  

Derale 17118, 18in fan $34 from Summit
Hayden 2710 clutch $35 also from summit.

Temps were lower idling through the Woodward Cruise this year.  
 
The Derale 17118, Flexalite 5718, and Hayden 3618 are all the same part.  When I was reading up on these fans, apparently they are all made by Hayden and the other two brands just re-box them.
 
Glad yours worked out well.  Idling in a cruise in hot summer temps this summer is where I noticed my 4 blade really not able to keep up.  So far my clutch fan has been working very well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom72torino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 8:36PM
Hello Vince!
I am currently doing the same conversion and your infos helps me a lot! Clap
I would also have the same clutch (2710) and same fan (5718) to mount. However, I am not quite sure with the dimensions. It's a 351C with shroud. How much distance did you have from the fan to the fan shroud? I would also have an 18 inch fan installed, but I have instead of 1" only 0.8" distance to the fan shroud.
Also, the new fan would be 0.9" closer to the engine.
Do you think this becomes a problem? And what bolts did you use for the clutch mount and fan mount?
Maybe you can help me, thanks a lot!Wink
Thomas
Have a nice day!
Greetings from austria!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-January-2017 at 7:23AM
Hi Thomas,
I don't have the clearance measurements for my car.  What I can tell you is that a 351C and 400 should be exactly the same for rad to water pump distance.  The fan spaced installed in my car placed the fan about 1/8" closer to the engine compared to the clutch fan.  Ideally, you want the fan about halfway into the shroud for optimal cooling.  You may have to do a mock up and see how close you are to having the fan in the correct location.
 
The bolts used to mount the fan to the clutch are in the instructions.  For the clutch to water pump bolts, I just brought them to the parts store and got the same size bolt but shorted in length.  Again I don't have the dimensions, but I recall they were short in length (probably about 3/4"), Use the highest grade bolts you can get. 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torino_Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2017 at 3:24AM
I just saw this episode of Engine Masters and immediately remembered this thread. They compare how much horsepower loss you get with different types of fans, so I thought this might be interesting to add here for anyone who's researching fan options:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdLgaFXZzs&list=PLGvTvFzdMg_O2T3UdUEt5dIHutSOu7srE&index=1


Edited by Torino_Chris - 01-May-2017 at 3:25AM
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