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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: distributor dilemma
    Posted: 09-April-2016 at 8:09AM
ok guys, now i need your expertise!!! i'm wanting to carberate a 92 5.8 (351W) and i'm needing to know which HEI distributor to purchase. the original computer controlled one has a length of 1 1/2" from the bottom of the drive gear to the end of the shaft (some 351w ones listed for sale claim only 1" length) and some 302 ones are available with 1 1/2" but are the rest of the lengths from there to the housing the same as a 351w?? diameter of the housing mount to the block the same?? distance from the mount to the top of the cap base the same distance???     
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 8:21AM
Everything's the same as the earlier one except the longer tip to the oil pump. It was made longer to ease distributor installation and engagement of the oil pump driveshaft. I think the driveshafts are the same, just engage deeper, but that is the only difference in fit.
I would check part #s on the driveshafts for a mid 80s and the 90s one to see if they are the same. if they are, it should drop right in. (if not, you could always swap oil pump driveshafts, but that's a bit more work)
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 8:29AM
Also, the 302/5.0 did this change in the mid 80s. My T-bird has an 86 engine that I converted to carb. The 86 engine used the long tailed distributor, and I put in a duraspark for an 85 which doesn't have the long tail. used the 86 driveshaft with no problem as it was the same length as the 78 one without any twists. (78 motor was a bit abused)
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 8:36AM
that's kinda what i thought but a buddy i work with said they tried using a different one and it was sloppy in the mounting hole in the block? and i looked at some used distributors another buddy had (he didn't remember if they were 351 or 302) but some were shorter up above and some had a smaller hex drive for the oil pump??? ( i don't want to pull my 351w HEI out of my car just to check Confused) and none of the local parts stores have any in stock to measure and compare Angry
JOHN
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90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 9:19AM
351 has a larger hex than a 302. HOWEVER, if you swap oil pump, oil pump driveshaft and distributor, it will all fit in a 302.
Just make sure your distributor drive gear is correct for your camshaft. Roller cams use a steel gear, flat tappets use an iron gear, (although some factory distributors had a nylon gear)
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 12:42PM
i saw some that had a smaller hex. and i heard things about the gear??? does the lower shaft come off the upper shaft? i see a roll pin there as well as the gear. i believe the 92 is a roller cam?


Edited by californiajohnny - 09-April-2016 at 12:43PM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 3:38PM
I always thought all the 302 / 351 dizzy housings were the same diameter until I saw this
 
all the 'regular' dizzies I'm used to are pretty much modular, you can remove the breaker plate or the reluctor & advance plate to expose the advance springs
 
 
then the upper shaft will come out. you can swap out a breaker top half with a Duraspark top half & vice versa. some good trick curve data on p2
 
 
I've not got into a TFI dizzy so I can't say what's goin on there


Edited by Rockatansky - 09-April-2016 at 3:50PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 4:06PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

i saw some that had a smaller hex. and i heard things about the gear??? does the lower shaft come off the upper shaft? i see a roll pin there as well as the gear. i believe the 92 is a roller cam?


5.8s never cam with a roller cam. The closest they came to it was the F4TZ 351 block in 94 having provisions for the roller lifter spider, but it was never used from the factory.

As for the distributors, you need also make sure the shaft diameter at the bottom is the same as your motor. Usually the smaller hex 302 distributor has a smaller shaft diameter where it rides down in the hole in the block. I think that is what your buddy was trying to say about the wobble.
Sal Mennella
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 4:14PM
The 351 got a slightly bigger oil pump drive, 5/16 instead of 1/4". The gears will probably have a different size hole if the distributor is a little thicker to account for that 1/16".
TFI distributor drive gears are a different size hole than Duraspark, but they all fit in the same hole in the block and drive the cam in the same location
 The TFI units have no advance, but you could mess with the "Octane adjustment rod". This was a solid rod that attached the vacuum advance plate to the body of the distributor. Changing this was like changing the static timing. Kinda idiotic, but some early versions of the efi has what they called "monolithic" timing. There is a ridge on the block and a corresponding groove in the distributor that only allowed the distributor to fit in one spot. You couldn't use a normal distributor because the ridge for the monolithic timing would keep the distributor from seating properly. You couldn't advance or retard the timing at all. The only adjustment was with different octane rods. This didn't last long, but the rods were there with TFI forever


Edited by Big Bird - 09-April-2016 at 4:26PM
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 5:41PM
thanks sal, IDK but i had heard that those were rollers? (guess i'll find out when i pull the intake to swap it, just thinking ahead while rounding up parts)
max, i too thought the distributors were all the same Confused
 but what had me wondering was if ford made major changes since this is a 92 5.8 vs 351W, i know some changes were made between the 302 and the newer 5.0's i was unsure if some changes were carried over with the bigger 5.8 Confused here are  links to two of the distributors i was looking at (scroll down and read the descriptions at the bottom of each item, and you'll see where the confusion sets in) (keep in mind this is a 92 5.8 EFI that we want to convert to a carb, the dist. that's in it now is a computer controlled non advancing dist. it is 1 1/2" at the end of the shaft)

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/331775108289?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2648


 http://www.ebay.com/itm/331066070181?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2648

 
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-April-2016 at 5:50PM
randy, no this original dist. can be turned to time it, it has no mechanical or vac. advance it looks like a dura spark dist. with the large flat cap. i want to use the GM style HEI dist. like i used in my 351W in my torino...one wire... put it in ... set it and forget it Wink done!
JOHN
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stanman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2016 at 1:19AM
I installed a 1996 5.8 in my 1994 F150 and it's a roller cam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2016 at 1:37AM
351 went roller in the early 90s, except the Lightning, which used a flat-tappet cam with a part # for a mid-70s Torino.
 
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2016 at 4:31AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

351 went roller in the early 90s, except the Lightning, which used a flat-tappet cam with a part # for a mid-70s Torino.
 


The 351 roller block didn't come out till late 94. Even then, I don't ever recall seeing any roller cams used, with the exception of one vehicle.... 95/96 5.8 F150/Bronco built in CA or MA...which were also the only mass air trucks as well. Those had roller cams.

Now to be honest, I was the Lightning guru back in the day, so the majority of the trucks I was dealing with back then were Lightnings, so I wasn't tearing apart too many regular 5.8s. But there was always plenty of discussion back then about putting roller cams in the Lightning 5.8 and I don't recall too much mention of 5.8s other than the mass air trucks having roller cams. If you had a Lightning and wanted a roller cam, you had to get the kit Downs Ford uses to sell with the small base circle cam and you tapped your valley area for the spider hold down bolts....or if you had a very late 94 or all 95s, you had the F4TZ block already and it was just bolt in parts out of the motorsport catalog. And then you called me and bought one of my mass air kits to make it run right, lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2016 at 5:27AM
if it's still a mystery as to what the cam core is made of you may want to use a bronze or composite dizzy gear to be safe
 
getting it wrong with a cast or hardened steel gear will be Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2016 at 6:31AM
IDK, he took the truck home yesterday for now, but if it were still here, i guess i could pull the dist. again and measure down to the pump shaft and see where it is in relation to the end of the dist....maybe it's like randy said about it being longer to ease in getting it started onto the pump shaft??? now making it that way would be smart! (so you could get the hex engaged before the gear engages) if that's the case then it only took ford 40+ years to figure that one out??? somehow that wouldn't surprise me!Confused
 maybe that longer end shaft only has to do with the newer 5.0, and not the 5.8??? i think i'll just order the 351W dist. and go from there...

thanks everyone for their input Thumbs Up Big smile


Edited by californiajohnny - 10-April-2016 at 6:33AM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2016 at 7:19AM
[/QUOTE]

The 351 roller block didn't come out till late 94. Even then, I don't ever recall seeing any roller cams used, with the exception of one vehicle.... 95/96 5.8 F150/Bronco built in CA or MA...which were also the only mass air trucks as well. Those had roller cams.

[/QUOTE]

In 1994 the Roller cam block was used in the Lightning without a roller cam, all 95 through the end of the production run for 351w's were roller cam in the Bronco's, F series, and E series vans.

3 weeks ago I picked up a 95 351w roller out of a F250 that was rolled over at 35,000 miles.

I have pulled all the fuel injection and truck stuff off so I can convert to carb for use in my 1976 Monarch.

I have all the F/I parts side by side with the non F/I stuff, for comparison and I will be using the cam gear off the F/I distributor on the DuraSpark unit for use with the roller cam upgrade.

A while ago I converted the Monarch to a RUG-AT top loader 4 speed and 31 spline 9 inch with a 4 pinion 3.91 traction lock that came out of a 70 Cyclone.

I am in process right now putting it together using a set of Motorsport J302 aluminum heads and an F303 roller cam.

They are nice pieces if you can get one that is not rusted to death, out here they were all plow trucks and suffered big time rust issues because of all the salt.

I looked at 5 low millage engines until I found a good one, paid $250.00 for it.

I can post pictures if your interested.

To answer your question, any of the cheapo HEI distributors for a 351w are all the same and will work for your application.

The difference in the end of the distributors is a non factor, the real issue is to use the correct gear as it relates to the roller cam.

You don't have a roller cam, so you are good to go as shipped.

I would suggest and did buy the Motorsport (ARP) oil pump drive rod though as I have made swizzle sticks out of the stock ones a couple times.

Thanks, Mike H.


Edited by mtburger - 29-June-2016 at 7:37AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2016 at 2:59PM
thanks mike, yeah i still haven't swapped it yet...soon (all his new parts are sitting here Cool)
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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