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    Posted: 10-March-2015 at 6:28AM
I was thinking about converting my 73 gran torino sport to an electric fan, anyone have the pros and cons of this?also what year vehicle could I get the set up from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2015 at 6:49AM
Just did it myself. There are many options both with the fan itself and the power/control methods.

First of all you will need to determine what size of fan you want. Do you need max cooling (are you running a big block stroker or something like that?) Many have used electric fans from the famous Mark VIII, also Ford Windstars and Taurus'. There are many aftermarket options as well. Spal and Flex-a-Lite both make good fans in a variety of sizes.

For my 521 stroker, I started with a dual fan (flex-a-lite 330/340 I believe) and it wasn't quite enough. It would have been fine for a smaller motor, but just not up to the task of cooling a 521. I then moved to the largest fan I was able to fit against the radiator, a Flex-a-Lite 490. I decided to build my own fan controller because I wanted to over build it, and I wanted the ability to add customizations down the line.

However there are many really good controllers, some by the major companies, Derale, Flex-a-Lite, etc, and some by smaller outfits (there is one that comes to mind that has been discussed here, but I can't remember the name).

For a smaller motor and a faint heart when it comes to electrical things, I might recommend a Ford factory fan (Mark VIII can be a tight fit for some) and an aftermarket controller.

BTW, I have my smaller Flex-a-Lite dual fan for sale, in case you were interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73torino gt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2015 at 6:58AM
It would be for 351c that's been beefed up but nothing to crazy.I seen a kit on Dearborn for 400$.that seems a little nuts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73torino gt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2015 at 6:59AM
How much HP will u generally gain from switching?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2015 at 7:18AM
Not sure how much HP or MPG you may gain changing over to an electric fan(s), but I definitely noticed a difference in how fast my BB spooled up after exchanging the heavy clutch fan/fan clutch assembly. Installing an upgraded alternator(read 3G large case 130 amp alternator) is usually required. I went with a '98 Ford Windstar dual electric fan assembly in my Ranchero and would do it again in a heartbeat. Good luck, Todd 
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2015 at 7:30AM
I didn't make the switch for more HP. I am not sure what the gain is, but prob minimal I would imagine.

I did the switch for better control over temp. Quicker warmups, better cooling in traffic and other low speed conditions, etc. It is a smarter way to have your car setup, and much more modern-minded. But as you note, it is expensive. Not sure what you use your car for, but I do a ton of daily driver stuff with mine, so being able to sit in traffic on 405 on a 90 degree day and not worry about boiling over is good. Also being able to get warmed up quicker on cold winter days so I have heat on the way to work is another plus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2015 at 8:20AM
Originally posted by GranTorinoSport GranTorinoSport wrote:

I didn't make the switch for more HP. I am not sure what the gain is, but prob minimal I would imagine.

I did the switch for better control over temp. Quicker warmups, better cooling in traffic and other low speed conditions, etc. It is a smarter way to have your car setup, and much more modern-minded. But as you note, it is expensive. Not sure what you use your car for, but I do a ton of daily driver stuff with mine, so being able to sit in traffic on 405 on a 90 degree day and not worry about boiling over is good. Also being able to get warmed up quicker on cold winter days so I have heat on the way to work is another plus.
 
Scott,
All good points here as well as in your first post in this thread.
 
Living in central Fl.(with 95-100 degree weather and 90%+ humidity in summer), I can attest to the cooling abilities of a dual electric fan(and a 3 core all aluminum radiator). I can also say that when driving at speed with an electric fan(s) "correctly" mated to fan controller(s), there is no parasitic hp/mpg loss like when using a flex/clutch fan, so a little bump in useable power and a reasonable increase in mpg can be achieved.  
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2015 at 9:53AM
Looking at doing this myself.
Are there any cons to using the bigger Mark VIII style on a single feed/speed set up.
 
Those fans run a controller that runs a Low and a High speed, correct?
What if I just hook it to a solenoid (that can handle the draw of course) so it just runs on full High only?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2015 at 1:06PM
Originally posted by Regul8r Regul8r wrote:

Looking at doing this myself.
Are there any cons to using the bigger Mark VIII style on a single feed/speed set up.
 
Those fans run a controller that runs a Low and a High speed, correct?
What if I just hook it to a solenoid (that can handle the draw of course) so it just runs on full High only?
 
 
  The only Con I saw while trying to install one on my ride was the depth of the whole unit, wouldn't work on my ride since I have a BB and all it's accessories.
  You can use the fan on High or Low only, no problem. You can use a screw-in sensor in the intake or T-stat housing that either has a positive or a negative trigger sent to the relay that turns the fan on for a "set it and forget it" system or just wire a switch inside the vehicle if a manual system is wanted. A 70amp relay will work fine, here is a pic, note the size of the Battery and Load terminals of the 70 amp relay on the left compared to a 30/40 amp "regular" Bosch style relay.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SirDan89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-March-2015 at 5:34AM
FWIW, my derale temp sensor bit the dust in under 6 months then shortly after the fuse holder that came with the kit melted. I don't think ill be using their products again to be honest.

You will pick up some power but probably not enough to even feel. Highway mpgs will probably get a touch better. The real benefit is the engine warms up quicker, better for the engine and better for you as you'll spend less time waiting for warm air out the vents.

I think OEM fans are the way to go if you can fit one in there. They had to go on thousands of cars and have to be reliable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-March-2015 at 6:05AM
Originally posted by SirDan89 SirDan89 wrote:

FWIW, my derale temp sensor bit the dust in under 6 months then shortly after the fuse holder that came with the kit melted. I don't think ill be using their products again to be honest.

You will pick up some power but probably not enough to even feel. Highway mpgs will probably get a touch better. The real benefit is the engine warms up quicker, better for the engine and better for you as you'll spend less time waiting for warm air out the vents.

I think OEM fans are the way to go if you can fit one in there. They had to go on thousands of cars and have to be reliable.
 
I see that you are a new member so 1st let me say...Welcome to the forum!
  Which Derale fan controller and/or sensor were you using? I use 2 separate Derale 16749 fan controllers for my dual electric fans(1 for the smaller fan and the other controls the larger fan), these come with the "better" screw-in sensors and not the push-in type that goes into the radiator fins(never been a fan-pun intended-of this type of sensor). The "Molex" plug on the sensor where it attaches to the controller, don't seem to make the best connection. I used the 16749's to send a negative trigger to larger 70amp relays(as pictured above), the Derale unit's are limited to 25amps continuous duty rating(the main reason I went with larger relays). Doing it this way adds a little bit to the wiring duties but this install has been trouble free for over 2.5 years.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2015 at 6:13AM
I realize this topic has been idle for a while, just thought this info would be of some use to those wondering if there is a HP or mileage advantage/disadvantage when going with electric cooling fan(s). I can personally tell you it made a difference in the way my BBF runs, "spools up" and MPG returns. Some of the result figures are surprising.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-July-2016 at 10:41AM
For those interested....
Found this posted somewhere
https://www.hollisterroad.com/categories.php?cat=6

They have simple controllers and connectors for the Taurus and mark viii fans.

I'm trying the 2000 windstar dual fan with a Dakota digital controller.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=852/prd852.htm

Anyone find a good spike suppression diode to limit the voltage transients from switching the fans on/off.




Edited by BackInBlack - 23-July-2016 at 10:43AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-July-2016 at 2:52PM
Here's another option....

Back when I used to design and produce parts for the Gen2 Lightnings, I developed an electric fan setup for them that worked awesome. I mounted an electric fan inside the opening of the STOCK radiator shroud using small metal brackets. It was wired up to a dual relay pack, where one relay was triggered when the AC was turned on, and the other relay was triggered by a 180* temperature switch tapped into the intake manifold coolant. 

So you retain the stock underhood look, and the large factory shroud allows the fan to pull more air across the radiator than the slim modern setups (this was CFM tested and confirmed).

Just food for thought...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-July-2016 at 3:24PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

For those interested....
Found this posted somewhere
https://www.hollisterroad.com/categories.php?cat=6

They have simple controllers and connectors for the Taurus and mark viii fans.

I'm trying the 2000 windstar dual fan with a Dakota digital controller.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=852/prd852.htm

Anyone find a good spike suppression diode to limit the voltage transients from switching the fans on/off.


 
Not trying to change your mind on the controller you chose, but a PWM controller would alleviate the start-up spikes since they ramp up the voltage to the fans based on temp instead of 100% on and 100% off. If my set-up gives me any issues I will try one of these or something similar from another manufacturer:
 Good luck
 
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-July-2016 at 4:34PM
Thx...
A variable speed fan will help...but you still get switching transients. Lower amplitude but more of them and continuous. I was thinking two speed with two fans to keep the controller simpler. I think installing transient suppressor would be a good idea no matter which type fan or electric water pump. You also get alot of transients from the alternator. Not a big deal with vintage car circuits except when you start installing things like electronic ignitions and fuel injection

Here is a reference
http://www.interferencetechnology.com/transient-voltage-suppressors-tvs-for-automotive-electronic-protection-2/

The voltage regulator provides some suppression of transients from the alternator now we add relay switching 10 to 50 amps after the regulator. I believe suppression is needed where the fans connect to the main line battery power

Mmm....definitely advantages with a pwm setup...has me rethinking the plan

Edited by BackInBlack - 23-July-2016 at 5:17PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-July-2016 at 6:02PM
Page 29 covers the electric fans I put in Lola...
 
 
I did this to add EXTRA cooling when cruising, hot days and towing. My stock fan does not rob enough power for me to worry about and the noise? Well, IF the noise of a fan irritates you then you are probably driving the wrong car... I hear Hyundai and Kia are the quietest on the market today and reasonably priced. lol
Still the same admin/moderator REGUL8R just needed a 2nd account for more picture space.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-July-2016 at 11:50PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

Thx...
A variable speed fan will help...but you still get switching transients. Lower amplitude but more of them and continuous. I was thinking two speed with two fans to keep the controller simpler. I think installing transient suppressor would be a good idea no matter which type fan or electric water pump. You also get alot of transients from the alternator. Not a big deal with vintage car circuits except when you start installing things like electronic ignitions and fuel injection

Here is a reference
http://www.interferencetechnology.com/transient-voltage-suppressors-tvs-for-automotive-electronic-protection-2/

The voltage regulator provides some suppression of transients from the alternator now we add relay switching 10 to 50 amps after the regulator. I believe suppression is needed where the fans connect to the main line battery power

Mmm....definitely advantages with a pwm setup...has me rethinking the plan
 
I didn't install a suppression diode when installing my Windstar fans but I did install a factory Ford diode between the +/- fan leads to keep the fans from generating electricity and/or back feeding the electric system when they are "free wheeling" at any mph while they aren't being energized by the controllers. This diode may also help with the suppression, but not intentionally installed for that purpose. I used a Ford diode you can find in 80'/90's junkyard vehicles, part #F2TF-14A604-AA, I get them by the hand full for just a few bucks. Easily wired into the system due to the spade connectors, cheap to replace, but never had to replace the first one. I used this diagram as an example of the installation:
 
 
Hope this info is helpful.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2016 at 12:10AM
That is helpful.   Thanks.   You are 100% correct in putting that diode in to protect the circuit.   Its a back EMF protection diode to prevent a reverse voltage from getting applied from the fan spinning or on/off control where the field in the motor's coil collapses and sends a negative voltage spike onto the return path.

Also, in this implementation using a relay to switch the fan rather than a FET will shorten the lifetime of that relay significantly.   Relays will have a limited number of cycles.   If going the PWM route it would be advisable to implement a FET switch with the proper heatsinking to insure reliable service.   A properly designed FET circuit would outlive the car.

If you can find the datasheet for that Bosch relay the expected lifetime could be calculated.   It should provided the number of cycles it was design for in the datasheet. Is that fan controller a pwm controller? If it's not then your relay should be ok.

That diode is a great part to use with these mods...thanks for that reverse protection idea.   Now just have to find a supply somewhere.   Where did you find it on the salvaged car and which car?

I have terrible boneyards around me due to the political incorrectness of a salvage yard.   I live to close to the political mecca of teh US.


Here is a nice write up on the pros/cons...
http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.com/PWMControl.html


Edited by BackInBlack - 24-July-2016 at 12:22AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2016 at 12:30AM
I used the diagram as a tutorial only, on mine I used 70amp relays due to my Derale controllers only being able to sustain 25amp continuous duty without an issue(maybe). Basically the Derale is the temperature controlled negative trigger for the heavier duty 70amp relays. If the 70amp relays give me any BS I would remove them and install some PAC-80's.  IIRC, I found the diodes on '92-'93 Ford Aerostar's or possibly Explorers in their respected under hood fuse panel/box. I should have "really" looked at the part number, F2 is date code for '92+.....Ouch. If you can't find them locally I may have a few laying around, send me a PM with address and I'll send you a pair. I have a BUNCH of the smaller black diodes just not sure if they are robust enough for the application.

Edited by aquartlow - 24-July-2016 at 12:31AM
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2016 at 12:27PM
This is very interesting...
http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.com/PWMControl.html
http://www.autocoolguy.com/#!auto-cool-rt/caot

I may try it.

Edited by BackInBlack - 24-July-2016 at 12:28PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2016 at 2:08PM
I'm a bit curious why you are so concerned with pulse width and startup voltage spikes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2016 at 3:43PM
the Windstar and the Mark VIII fans draw A HUGE power spike on initial start up that cause havoc if you do not have them wired correctly.
Still the same admin/moderator REGUL8R just needed a 2nd account for more picture space.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2016 at 4:01PM
Originally posted by Regul8r 2 Regul8r 2 wrote:

the Windstar and the Mark VIII fans draw A HUGE power spike on initial start up that cause havoc if you do not have them wired correctly.

What kind of havoc? I have used both of those fan setups for years with simple relays with no problems. Even the OE wiring setup is just relays...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2016 at 7:23PM
by Havoc I mean, headlight dim, overheating wires if not proper gage used, overloading the old 40 and 60 amp alternators.
 
More of an issue if you are just slapping them in an old parts full old wiring car without doing SOME upgrading and prep work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2016 at 7:32PM
This controller is pretty nice.  Does two fans and controls an electric water pump.   Alot of nice features but it is pretty expensive.   $264 w shipping.   Not sure about the advantage.   200 bucks buys alot of relays.

http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.com/PWMControl.html
http://www.autocoolguy.com/#!auto-cool-rt/caot

Edited by BackInBlack - 24-July-2016 at 7:34PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-July-2016 at 5:25PM
Tried a 2002 Crown vic fan; it was close but to deep 
2002 Windstar dual fan; to wide will require quite a bit of mods

I'm running out of options.   I guess the 95 Taurus fan.   Anyone tried a 2014 Taurus fan?   Looks like it might fit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-July-2016 at 5:29PM
John,
I have a 351C and the Lincoln MKVIII fan just fits with about a half inch to an inch between it and the water pump. Cools like crazy. Fits on the radiator like it was designed to be there.
But on a bigger engine it might not fit. Don't know.
Russ


Edited by russosborne - 27-July-2016 at 5:40PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-July-2016 at 12:01AM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

Tried a 2002 Crown vic fan; it was close but to deep 
2002 Windstar dual fan; to wide will require quite a bit of mods

I'm running out of options.   I guess the 95 Taurus fan.   Anyone tried a 2014 Taurus fan?   Looks like it might fit.

 
I use a '95-'98 model Windstar fan assembly and I had to trim the shrouding where the trans lines are, the upper and lower radiator hose locations and the lower drain. I also used a piece of 1/8"x 3/4" galvanized flat stock stiffen the top of the assembly where the top mounts are located, attached it will 3/16" rivets and made the two "L" brackets to fit into the factory receiver bracket at the bottom of the core support. Not sure if the '99-'03 Windstar assemblies are wider and/or deeper. I also used a Champion all aluminum 3 core, here are some pics of the radiator/fan assembly:
 
 
 
 
 
 
This dual electric fan assembly has absolutely no problem keeping my 472" BBF cool in central Florida heat even when using the A/C and stuck in traffic. Hope these are helpful.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-July-2016 at 12:08AM
Originally posted by russosborne russosborne wrote:

John,
I have a 351C and the Lincoln MKVIII fan just fits with about a half inch to an inch between it and the water pump. Cools like crazy. Fits on the radiator like it was designed to be there.
But on a bigger engine it might not fit. Don't know.
Russ
 
Yep, those Mark VIII fans are THE BEST SINGLE OEM fan out there, believe me I tried to install one on my ride. I found that the Mark VIII would not fit mine with a BBF and A/C without major mods to core support/radiator brackets.
  Did you also upgrade to 3G large case alternator or at least get a larger, more powerful unit?
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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