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Engine and Trans build, engine compartment detail

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Rockatansky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2017 at 7:27AM
that'd be a good start, some threaded rod, large washers & double nutted through some 2x4's over the top might get'r done 
 
first thing a punkCensored fork driver is gonna do is pop the strap then whadya got?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2017 at 12:21PM

Of course I know it's a Chevy guys!! Evil Smile  It was just the first pic that popped up during a google image search.  I like your idea of the support around the top Rock.  I don't like that tie strap either.  Once I get to that stage I will post a pic of my FORD engine to show what it looks like before I ship it out.

Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-October-2017 at 1:25PM

So I am just  took the Torino on it's last drive today before I parked it for winter.  I was down by my local speed shop chatting with the owner  and I am reconsidering some of what I discussed here before (ie sending the engine to TMeyer Inc).  He's an old school Hot Rodder who's built countless engines and restored many cars.  I was talking about the costs of shipping the whole shebang to TMeyer Inc.  Anyway, with crossing the border and shipping the engine it will add a ton of time and expense to my project and he suggested that he'd do the build for me (and I could help).

There is a machine/engine shop just North of Toronto that he'd been using lately and he thinks they'd be able to do all the work fine.  He's sending his 1950's Hemi for his Rat Rod there for machine work, because so I trust his word.  I am going to try to contact them this week. Here's there website:
 
 
So now I am thinking instead of spending a TON of money to send my engine to have TMeyer do the complete build, I have two other options.
 
1) Just order my pistons, a custom TMeyer Roller cam, cam bearings and other specialty parts from TMeyer. Then have the machine work done for the block and heads by the above shop in Toronto. Then have the build done locally.
 
2) Send the shortblock and have TMeyer and have him do the machine work.  Get the shorblock sent back with a cam.  Then have the heads done by the Toronto machine shop and assemble locally.
 
Both options would likely save me somewhere in the four figures easy.  I know TMeyer is awesome and if he did the build it'd be great, but at the same time once I priced everything out its a small fortune (and I got kids to feed).
 
Any input or opinions is appreciated.


Edited by 72FordGTS - 30-October-2017 at 2:11PM
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stanman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-October-2017 at 1:28PM
Option 1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-October-2017 at 4:35PM
option 1 sounds good Thumbs Up

put those kids out on the corner with a cardboard sign "need money for car parts"  lolLOL help pay for that build WinkLOL


Edited by californiajohnny - 31-October-2017 at 4:43PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-October-2017 at 4:47AM
no reason you can't put together a successful build sourcing what you need from where it comes from
 
you're miles ahead of the game being knowledgeable & educated as to what makes the Boat Anchor build work & not
 
maybe you've seen it already but here's a great description of how the closing point of the intake valve controls Dynamic Compression. also not sure if you've caught on that George Pence doesn't get into max numbers drag racing cam profiles, he's into 'sports car' performance that involves the kind of TQ curve i think you're after for your 72 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-October-2017 at 3:29PM
Alright so I got some prices from the Machine shop in Toronto and compared to what it would cost me through TMI.  If I buy the parts from Tim and have the machine work done by the Toronto shop it's almost maybe a couple hundred dollars cheaper than Tim machining and assembling the short block. So I might be further ahead to go that way.  That was the machine work with the rotating assembly balanced, which I think Tim's assembly includes if I am reading his documents correctly. 
It seems right now Tims prices on short blocks are pretty cheap but it gets expensive from their.  So maybe it would be worth it to send him the short block, and buy one of his custom roller cams from him.  Then do the rest of the assembly back home.
 
Toronto is cheaper than Tim on the heads.  Tim lists "economical stainless steel valves" while the Toronto shop listed Manley Stainless valves for their rebuild.  So I am not sure if they are comparable? 
 
Rockatansky, thanks for the link.  I will read through it when I have time.  I don't think I have read that one before.  I thought I read somewhere before that a lot of shops mess up 335 heads during a rebuild.  Is there anything special a machine shop should be doing to rebuild the heads?
 
Still thinking about what to do...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-November-2017 at 1:26PM
So to update, I got the engine out of the car this weekend.  It all went well, I was even able to get the exhaust manifolds off without breaking a bolt.  I am hoping to get the engine crated up this week and it all goes well I will ship in early next week (if I have the time to make the drive across the border).
 
After crunching all the numbers, the Toronto shop had a bunch of extra costs they didn't tell me about so their prices weren't all that much better.  I am just going to get the engine to TMI and have them do the long block.  At least with TMI, they build these engines everyday, while the shop in Toronto they do all sorts of engines.  It's going to be expensive, but I know it will get done right.
 
I am also thinking I will likely pull my front clip while the engine is out and detail the chassis, firewall, and all the under hood sheetmetal.  The car was undercoated when new and while there is no rust, it's a real big mess.  I am thinking of having the transmission freshed up too.  So I will keep this thread posted on all that as well.
 
I had to max out the lift to get it to clear the header panel. 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-November-2017 at 1:40PM
Can't wait to see the progress!! That red looks amazing on a 72
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-November-2017 at 3:07PM
Clap i'm surprised that cherry picker went high enough with the leveler thing that added about 12"
JOHN
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74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2017 at 8:16AM
I was checking all the casting marks on my engine, and it seems both the heads and block were cast at Dearborn Iron Foundry.  From what I have read most engines from the 335 series family were cast at the Cleveland Foundry of the Michigan Casting centre.  According to Bubba's info only 1971 and 1972 400's were cast at DIF.
 
Here are some pics if you're interested.  Looks like the engine was cast March 17, 1972 about two weeks before the car was built in Oakville, Ontario.
 
So I drove down to Buffalo today and had the engine shipped out. 
 
Here's the engine getting packed up on the pallet.  I ended up using three straps over of the engine to keep it from tipping over.
 
 
Here it is about to be unloaded in Buffalo.  I used vapor barrier poly to cover it up.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stanman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-November-2017 at 11:19AM
Did they give you any grief crossing the border?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-November-2017 at 2:24PM
No real issues.  When I went back to Canada, the border guard asked where I lived (which is over 4 hours from Buffalo) and she thought it was weird I would drive so far to drop off an engine.  I had to explain that I was visiting family that was relatively close by, which seemed to ease her mind.
 
The engine should arrive at Tim's tomorrow. 
 
I am going to start looking around for a place to do the transmission. I might look into doing the E4OD low gear modification, since I want to keep highway oriented gears. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-November-2017 at 2:48PM
with a proper cam you won't need the wide ratio trans build, that low 1st gear will make it leave like a school bus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2017 at 12:24PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

with a proper cam you won't need the wide ratio trans build, that low 1st gear will make it leave like a school bus
Can you explain this to me, because I am not sure I am following?  My engine will likely have a came with a range of somewhere in the 1500-5500 RPM power band.  I just figured with highway gears that the lower first gear would at least get you out of the hole better, while you could still cruise at highway speeds at low RPM.  This should have enough torque to deal with the wider gear spread.
 
I crunched some numbers and this is what I came up with for max speeds in each gear (with no converter slippage).  Basically the wide ratio gearset makes first gear have about 10% more gear.  So a 2.75 rear end would feel like a 3.06, or a 3.00 would feel like a 3.34 rear end.  
 
I appreciate yours or anyone else's input. 
 
Gear Ratio      Max Speed
 

2.46                        58.4

1.46                        98.5

1                              143.7

                               

2.74                        52.5

1.55                        92.7

1                              143.7

 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2017 at 12:39PM
if you run a OD trans, i'd toss a set of 3.50-3.70 gears and never look back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2017 at 1:19PM
it can also depend on your rear tire size some, if you're running 295/50/15's will be a little lower geared say compared to 275/60/15's Wink
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74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2017 at 2:10PM

What OD trans can I run behind a big block bellhousing though for relatively cheap?  I don't want to get an E4OD which is too big and heavy.  I am already blowing the budget on the engine, so I want to keep the trans relatively economical. 

My math up above does account for my tires I have, which are about 26.5" tall. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2017 at 8:11PM
Yes you'll have plenty of TQ, thus no need for increased planetary multiplication. the 4" crank arm (stroke) of the 400 will have no problem turning your existing rear gear. i can't say for sure exactly where the point is but at some point multiplication will reduce the load to where the engine isn't doing any work, just turning rpm like a school bus wound up to redline doing 35 mph ... again maybe an exaggeration but to give you the idea of the concept
 
the higher / wide ratio trans's came about is because they're trying to move large vehicles with small engines, less power / TQ.
you're not going to be suffering from a small less power / TQ engine
 
what do the numbers look like with more gear?
 
 
 
 


Edited by Rockatansky - 01-December-2017 at 7:17AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-December-2017 at 6:52AM
I wasn't sold on the wide ratio transmission, just one thing I am considering.  I do know that from speaking to Tim, he setups his motors to have lots of bottom end power.   I know this wide ratio mod will cost a lot extra versus just a straight rebuild of the transmission.  With the money on the engine, then headers, new exhaust, powdercoating all my underhood parts, this is going to be an expensive project.
If I had unlimited funds, I'd just build a C6 and run a gear vendors OD unit with a set of 3.50 gears.  But there is no way I can afford a trans, GV and a new third member.  So no matter what I choose, it will be a compromise in some way. 
 
I do a lot of highway, which is why I prefer to have the car setup for highway performance.  I guess I'd best described  I am kind of looking for performance setup similar to an old cop car rather than a street machine.
Vince

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