The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > Project Updates
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Engine and Trans build, engine compartment detail
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Engine and Trans build, engine compartment detail

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 3546
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-December-2017 at 7:26AM
compromise / compraschmize
perfect 20/20 hindsight Keep It Simple & Less Is More would've saved me countless wild goo$e chases & backwards steps
what's better than a motor that runs, a trans that shifts and a rear fits the bill? 
 
take your project 1 step at a time, spend $ wisely & count your blessings in simplicity Big smile
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
lynchster View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07-January-2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 1563
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-December-2017 at 11:16AM
The only way I see using an AOD with the big block is using an aftermarket bell housing. I've seen them on a quick search going for 4 to 5 bills.

I don't know yet if there is a factory bell housing that will swap.


JW Ultra Bell for BBF

http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/14/28/56/33/img_0310.jpg

Edited by lynchster - 01-December-2017 at 11:18AM
Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport
91 F-150
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-December-2017 at 8:47AM

Thanks Chuck, for the info on the AOD.  I remember looking into it a while ago, and was surprised at how expensive those bell housings are.  Buy one of those plus a build AOD and the prices get pretty high pretty quickly.

 
Rockatansky, thanks for the advice. I will just keep it simple for now.  I will have the C6 freshened up but just keep it with the stock ratios.  I looked at the TCI kits for the low planetary gear set and it'll probably cost me as much as having a local guy build my trans.  I think long term I will look at playing with the rear end ratio and maybe installing a GV OD (or maybe an AOD conversion).  But for now this should be fine.
 
I talked to Tim today and gave him an idea of what I was looking for in the cam. I told him I was willing to live with a rougher idle and wanted something similar to his old Pantera grind as I know this cam worked out decently in a '78 LTD with a built 400 and highway gears.  He said once we get to that stage and select the cam, we can figure out if I need to upgrade the torque converter.
 
Thanks again for all the input.


Edited by 72FordGTS - 04-December-2017 at 8:49AM
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
lynchster View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07-January-2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 1563
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-December-2017 at 6:01PM
I like the C6. Upgrade the clutches and install a shift kit. It will shift a bit harder but helps fight the wear associated with the factory style slipping into gears. It will probably bark second when you launch it hard.   
Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport
91 F-150
Back to Top
7T9_Tbird View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-December-2017
Location: Athens, Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 57
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7T9_Tbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-December-2017 at 12:33AM
New here guys, but wouldn't a AOD from a 90's Ford truck work? the 400M uses the BB bell housing pattern.  I've got one in My '79 Tbird.
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-December-2017 at 3:18PM
I am pretty sure the big block Ford trucks from the 90s used the E4OD not the AOD. And the E4OD isn't really one I'd want to use.

In the end I have to reel things in a bit for now. I will just rebuild the C6 and do some minor upgrades like the R servo, a shift kit and maybe adding more clutch packs. This should be relatively cheap, much more so than retrofitting a modern built AOD. Like Chuck says above, I really like the simplicity of the C6.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
fordismyboss View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 05-January-2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Status: Offline
Points: 196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordismyboss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-December-2017 at 5:22PM
Sounds like you are going to like your rebuilt 400. I sure like that engine stand in the truck!

I was really concerned about not having an overdrive with my BBF, but decided not to go with a later model AOD or a gear vendors unit. After about 800 miles on my TCI C6 and 2.75 gears, I'm glad I stayed with the simple C6. Column shifter hooked right up with a C6 bracket, speedo cable was plug-in, new tranny cooler lines are off the shelf, factory trans mount bolts right up, stock drive shaft, and dip stick was easy. About 2500 RPM at about 65 MPH is pretty good cruising down the freeway. As for barking 2nd gear, YOU BET IT DOES!!!!!! YOURS WILL TOO!!!!    
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-December-2017 at 2:35AM
Originally posted by fordismyboss fordismyboss wrote:

Sounds like you are going to like your rebuilt 400. I sure like that engine stand in the truck!

I was really concerned about not having an overdrive with my BBF, but decided not to go with a later model AOD or a gear vendors unit. After about 800 miles on my TCI C6 and 2.75 gears, I'm glad I stayed with the simple C6. Column shifter hooked right up with a C6 bracket, speedo cable was plug-in, new tranny cooler lines are off the shelf, factory trans mount bolts right up, stock drive shaft, and dip stick was easy. About 2500 RPM at about 65 MPH is pretty good cruising down the freeway. As for barking 2nd gear, YOU BET IT DOES!!!!!! YOURS WILL TOO!!!!    
 
Thanks, I am glad to hear someone is happy with 2.75 gears.  Honestly, even with my stockish 400, I didn't mind them.  It wasn't super strong out of the hole, but even in stock form that engine is so torquey it seems to handle the gears fine.  On the highway the car is super responsive, it hits triple digit speeds almost too easily.  I think with this new engine, it should be even better and I am looking forward to the 1-2 bark!  Smile
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
72GTS351CJ View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 30-November-2010
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-December-2017 at 2:46AM
It's funny. ....Back in the day if you could "chirp" second gear you had a serious street machine. I had a ball chirping 2nd gear in my mustang.
72GTS Clint Eastwood Special                                     
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2017 at 7:04AM
I got an email from Tim.  He's wondering if I want any of my old engine parts back. Is there anything that is worth keeping?
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 3546
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2017 at 7:31AM
the stock crank sprocket from the timing gear set, is it C8SE-xxxx ?
 
could be an original pre-retard sprocket that everybody wants to un-tard their cam
 
and it makes a cool paper weight :D


Edited by Rockatansky - 22-December-2017 at 7:31AM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2017 at 1:16AM
I actually already have the original timing set. I changed it a few years ago and upgraded to a Cloyes double roller set. But I guess I can ask him to give me that timing set back if he doesn't use it since it's almost new.

Any other parts?
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
unlovedford View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17-December-2010
Location: Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 9535
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2017 at 2:23AM
I'm a packrat, so I'd keep anything left over. You never know what you might end up with in the future and need something. Example: I had a set of mid 1970's small block heads. Worth nothing, really but I kept them for a long time. Almost threw them away several times. Then I ended up with enough parts to build a stock 302 (minus heads) so they finally came in handy.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
Back to Top
Power Surge View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06-March-2016
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 484
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2017 at 3:07AM
Originally posted by 7T9_Tbird 7T9_Tbird wrote:

New here guys, but wouldn't a AOD from a 90's Ford truck work? the 400M uses the BB bell housing pattern.  I've got one in My '79 Tbird.

The AOD never came on anything with the larger bolt pattern. So no go there. It also does not have a removable bellhousing like a C4 does. However, there ARE companies that make an adapter plate to bolt an AOD to a 351M/400/460. 

E4OD is a great trans, but it's BIG also. Might not clear the trans tunnel without some massaging. If an E4OD is desired, it can be stand alone controlled by using a Baumanator TSC controller. 

The C6 is a great trans, but man, that extra gear sure would be nice. I do 75-80 mph back and forth to work, and my 351CJ/C6 GTS is screaming around 3700rpms at 80 mph. 
Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
Back to Top
7T9_Tbird View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-December-2017
Location: Athens, Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 57
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7T9_Tbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2017 at 9:59AM
I found out after I posted that My car has the AOD, bellhousing machined off and a custom piece bolted on.  It's also has a 10" converter that locks around 3500-4000 RPM.Confused Gonna have to look into this a little more.
John
79 Thunderbird Heritage
79 Thunderbird Town Landau
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2018 at 1:24PM
Update from Tim.  The engine machine work is mostly done.  He's waiting on parts. 
 
Here are some photos he sent:
 
 
 
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Online
Points: 8334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2018 at 2:37PM
looks damn good so far! Big smile
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 3546
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-January-2018 at 12:12PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:


 
 
 
 


 Aaaaahhh!! casting Flash-back!

i spent a lot of time going over my favorite-est block & heads with all kinds of smoothing utensils until i could wrestle it for a week and not find a sharp edge

but yes it does look like it's being treated well

any cam info yet?
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-January-2018 at 1:05PM
Haha thanks!  I noticed the flash too. I asked Tim if he's figured out the cam yet, and but he hasn't got back to me yet.  I might be look at getting one of his custom DuraSpark distributors with the HEI built in, but waiting to see if they are available yet.
 
On the transmission front, I think I have a line on a couple guys that can do the job for me.  Will have to talk to them and see what they charge.  Anyone have any recommendation on the a good rebuilt kit for a C6?  Something that would increase number of clutches would be nice.


Edited by 72FordGTS - 18-January-2018 at 1:25PM
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 3546
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-January-2018 at 3:25PM
probably best to talk to the builder regarding how he can/wants to get the extra clutches in and sourcing parts. my C6 has Kevlar 'Blue Plate Special' frictions and Kolene (nitrided for wear resistance) steels but i think the Red Alto clutches may be better? now i see they have a new friction material called Z-pac or something

from what i remember my builder guy said remove the 'wave' (a cushion spring in the clutch pack) and either change the pressure plate (thick steel plate that covers the end of the clutch pack) or machine it thinner for clearance to fit extra clutches. they can also machine a new snap ring groove in the shell for more room in the clutch pack

http://www.altousa.com/page/high_performance

click on Catalog here http://www.altousa.com/page/automotive and C6 starts on p222
scroll down and you'll various thickness specs for components and different types of materials available. all these dimensions come together and hopefully it works Wacko
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.