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Engine/Tranny removal

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Rivercrest View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11-December-2019 at 4:45PM
Hi to all, I am planning on removing my engine and transmission as one piece. Just wondering if I will have to remove the tranny support cross member. I have already removed the front clip, rad, rad support etc. It's a clear path ahead so maybe I'll be able to avoid the removal of the cross member ? It's a 1974 Cougar 351C. Thanks in advance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2019 at 6:03PM
probably possible if you don't have to lift too much to clear the motor mounts and if you remove the tranny mount it may have enough room to slide out???

but it's easy to remove the crossmember Wink
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2019 at 1:44AM
Thanks I appreciate the advice and experience of the experts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2019 at 11:23AM
If you unbolt the rubber mount on the extension housing and motor mountsfrom the block, it should slide out. Double check that the fluid in the transmission is drained or get a plastic plug made for keeping the fluid in the transmission. Some heavy plastic bags and rubber bands  will do in a pinch. The cooling lines for the transmission can be capped with some 3/8" hise and clamps. You might find you still need to remove the cross member anyway. It is only a couple of bolts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend onirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2019 at 1:33AM
We just removed the engine and tranny from my sons 73 torino.  We had the front clip off as well.  we removed the crossmember, its easier.  we unbolted the transmission from the crossmember, (and the motor mounts) then put a jack stand under the transmission.  once we were hooked up to the engine with the hoist, we put a jack under the tranny and lowered it down.  easy peasy.  (disclaimer:we had some issues getting the engine and transmission out, but it had to do with the massive headers that were on his car, not the crossmember)
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malcolm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2019 at 2:07PM
As far as engine out procedures go, the torino setup is pretty simple. I think the 429/460 based setups are little trickier than the smaller 302s and 351s but it should all come out in one piece without removing any body panels or supports.

disconnect battery
drain coolant
pull radiator and hoses
clamp and disconnect fuel lines
disconnect wiring harness
disconnect throttle cable
drain p/s fluid
remove p/s pump
remove alternator
remove the fan and pulleys from the front
jack the car up
remove driveshaft with a pan under the yoke to catch all the fluid
unbolt the exhaust
loosen up headers (maybe only on the big block)
disconnect the speedo cable
disconnect the shifting linkage
get everything situated to start pulling engine
I think I usually unbolt the motor mounts and trans mount first, then the cross member and start lowering the trans down. I can't really remember but some how it just slides foreward a bit to clear the firewall, then up and out.

I'm sure I'm missing some stuff but generally its pretty simple, just big and heavy.



-Billy Conturo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2019 at 4:35PM
I am 1/2 way down the list, thanks Billy. I have also removed the tranny cross member just to be sure. carry on tomorrow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2019 at 4:41PM
Forgot to ask, how much tranny fluid can I expect to leak out when I pull the driveshaft out ? Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2019 at 5:08PM
it feels like 100 gallons when it's spilling all over you but it's probably more like 1 or 2.
-Billy Conturo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-December-2019 at 4:04PM
It's done , engine and tranny together. Fluid mess on the shop floor. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-January-2020 at 1:26PM
Happy New Year to all. Today I unbolted the tranny from the engine, two pieces are now on separate stands. Next step will be to start trying to save the 351C motor, which runs but has a internal noise/squeal/rattle. I don't know the history of this 45 year old motor but my first observation is the cam shaft seal/cover that is right behind the flywheel is spray painted a primer brown and is relatively grease and dirt free. Considering this engine has been around for 45 years would this be a good indication that the cam shaft has been replaced not too very long ago ? Thanks for your expertise..........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-January-2020 at 3:51PM
 well maybe, maybe not? but i say timing chain has been??? which would be goodWink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-January-2020 at 4:18PM
When you replace the timing chain set, be sure to ask for a 1970 351 Cleveland set, to avoid any chance of the dreaded retarded timing sets that Ford started installing in later 400 engines and some Clevelands. You just never know when it comes to parts warehouses.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-January-2020 at 4:56PM
I have the factory manuals but can anyone suggest a good site/parts book for the best information, because like Joe just said the parts counter is not always the best place to go.........'specially here in Canada.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote torinomike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-January-2020 at 5:37PM
You sure you don't want to buy my rebuilt 400 engine? 😉
Mike

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2020 at 3:47PM
No, cause that would take away the fun of it..............LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-January-2020 at 11:51AM
So, in my quest to look for an engine noise issue, I now have separated the engine from the tranny...I have the engine, intact, sitting on an engine run stand. I've checked the compression, 125 lbs equal on all 8 cylinders. As a part of running the engine in the near future I have rigged up a fuel source. As a part of that I have removed the fuel pump, looking inside the block I am questioning the location of the timing chain, it almost seems to be in front of the fuel pump opening, I can see the fuel pump lobe but everything seems to be in such close quarters. The lobe is not directly in front of the opening like I would have expected. Opinions on this would be appreciated before I start removing the water pump and timing chain cover.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-January-2020 at 11:56AM
the eccentric the pump runs on is usually bolted in front of the cam gear, so the pump would be in front of the chain...
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-January-2020 at 12:29PM
any offset in the shape of the fuel pump arm will direct you to where the eccentric is

why not just let the fuel pump supply the gas from a can?

and why are you going to remove the water pump & timing cover?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-January-2020 at 2:08PM
The valves on this engine were done by the previous owner, the workmanship lasted about 600 miles then an audible squeal developed. Owner shut the car off, towed it home and now the car is mine after sitting for about 10 years untouched. Truth is I don't want to disassemble the engine any further than needed but I am willing and somewhat able. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-January-2020 at 3:04AM
A spun bearing may be the problem. If it is already out of the car, I would pull it apart. Otherwise, the questions will keep you awake at night when something else doesn't seem right. And prime the oiling system before you start it.
Pull the plugs and look for rust etc. and rotate the crank manually, you may feel it hear something that is amiss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-January-2020 at 6:41AM
OK, thanks for everything so far. So here I am, I have a 1974 351C 4V engine with good compression on all 8 cylinders, engine runs but has a serious squeak. This engine I think has had a valve job done but may have been done poorly, even after tightening down the rockers I still get 2 push rods that are loose depending on how I rotate the crankshaft with a wrench. I also have a doner car with a 1976 351m/400 2V engine that runs well but has low compression on one cylinder ( squirt oil in the cylinder brings up the compression ). This is also a suspect engine for cracked water jacket condition. All the push rods are tight on this engine. So I need direction on if I can swap the heads from the 351m on to the 351c this would include the 4V carb, manifold and distributor. I am sure this question has been asked many times before and for that I apologize.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-January-2020 at 6:42AM
On the same note, the plugs seem fine in the 351C motor, no signs of any contamination.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-January-2020 at 12:58PM
If the rockers won't tighten, the studs may be coming out of the heads, the lifters may be shot, or the valves may be coming apart.
Don't know about the 351C but with the squeal, and "recent" chain/gears/possible cam service i would suspect a spun cam bearing if this were a small-block Buick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-January-2020 at 8:58AM
Originally posted by Rivercrest Rivercrest wrote:

So I need direction on if I can swap the heads from the 351m on to the 351c this would include the 4V carb, manifold and distributor. I am sure this question has been asked many times before and for that I apologize.

Yes, the heads from a 351M will work on your 351C.  If your 351C is a 2V engine, than you can use the intake from the 351C, the 351M intake is too wide. The distributors will swap between the engines too.

Keep in mind that the 351M heads (D5 castings) have more restrictive exhaust ports, but if you are just looking to get the engine running they will work.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-January-2020 at 3:32PM
Be careful with distributors. I believe the windsors will fit but the gear is cut differently and will be eaten by the cam of a cleveland. Stay in 335 series to be safe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2020 at 5:26AM
I have now followed through with tightening down the rockers "properly" as per the shop manual. Just fired up the engine and it runs, push rods are firm, but the squeak is still there. UPDATE: I have dropped the oil pan looking for something obvious in the bottom end, as the squeaking sounded like a bottom end origin, at the moment I see no scoring or serious discoloration. Guess I am going to remove the carb, intake manifold and more over the next few days..........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2020 at 11:48AM
Use a stethoscope and listen to the timing cover. Maybe the fuel pump eccentric is scraping the back on the cover.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2020 at 11:49AM
You might be able to see up into the timing chain area with the pan off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2020 at 11:51AM
Have you tried running the engine without the fan belts on? That will isolate the engine from accessories. 
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