Engine/Tranny removal |
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Currently I only have a short belt running the water pump off the crank. All other items have been removed. I can see the eccentric and don't have the fuel pump installed. I am gravity feeding the carb from a lawn mower gas tank. All this to try and remove any and all suspects that could be causing the squeak. Too bad I can't access the cam shaft without further engine disassembly. I've run the engine for a limited amount of time, now I am going to pull the rocker covers and recheck the push rods and then "off with it's head" tomorrow..........
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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hmm, wonder if it's a small compression leak from the head gasket??? is it a continuous squeak? or a pulsing squeak?
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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I think it is typical of a bearing squeal. I've now pulled the carb, intake manifold and have visual access to the lifters. Next step will be to expose the timing chain and gears....maybe I can spin the cam shaft with the chain off ?? Anyone think it could be one of the cam shaft bearings ??
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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Did you run the engine without accessories?
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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I would suspect a spun rod or crank bearing long before a cam bearing. The top end on these engines were fed more oil than necessary. There are fixes to get more oil to the crank available here somewhere.
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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with the oil pan off, I can't see anything obvious as I turn the crank shaft with a socket. I am running a short belt between the crank and the water pump only.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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how do the cylinder walls and piston skirts look from the bottom? i'm guessing maybe the cam keeper/thrust plate or pump eccentric...
if you pull the lifters...DO NOT mix them up!!!! take an egg carton and lay them in the exact order |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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did you start the engine with the 1 belt off before taking it apart? if it was internal engine it would've found a way to let you know what it is
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72 GT Ute
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Looking from underneath with the oil pan removed, everything "looks" good. The compression is pretty much 125 across the board. Does that tell me the valves are closing as needed ? As previously posted, the engine had a valve job done and then "K-POW" the engine started squealing 400 miles later........Cam bearing ? Don't even know if the cam and related parts were replaced or if they are the correct parts at this moment. Is replacing the cam shaft bearings as difficult as it looks in the repair manuals ? Looking to hear from someone who has done the same.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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you will need an exact sized driver to remove and install them looks like a seal driver with a long handle to hammer on to drive them in one at a time not real difficult but they must be lined up correctly for the oil holes as you drive them in!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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You will see clear evidence of a spun bearing on whichever part of the cam it was locked onto. It may be "welded" to the cam in which case will be a bitch to remove. I would bet the bearing was installed incorrectly if one is the problem but maybe they were all off a little bit.
Remove the crank and cam last so you can rotate the assembly manually. You will feel it hanging up or being real tight when you spin it by hand. Take pics as you go so we can look at what you are seeing.
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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After removing the intake manifold and valley pan gasket I see a hole (s) in the casting of the block that "appear " to be above each intermediate bearing of the cam shaft. Would these be the oiling/lubrication holes ? Are the bearings supposed to be directly in line with these holes? If so, one of mine is not.
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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Oil return holes. They drain the top end oil back to the pan.
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Oil holes, that makes sense. Today I have removed the pushrods being careful to keep track of what goes where... I have also removed the water pump etc to expose the timing chain and sprockets. Not knowing the history of this motor, how can I tell if the timing chain and sprockets are original. if they are would the gears have a FORD part number. (stamped ? ) The chain has the word "morse" stamped on a link and S-436 and M99 stamped on the camshaft sprocket. gonna check deflection tomorrow before I remove them. Planning on hand spinning the camshaft looking for that squeal tomorrow.
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Coyote1
New Member Joined: 15-January-2020 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I've had a bad distributer make a squeaking noise (the shaft bushings were wore and causing the shaft to wobble)
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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idk if turning by hand will produce the squeal because rotation will be way slower than idling but any excessive play or tightness in a particular part of the rotation may indicate a problem there?
morse and the # are a brand of chain and the size if original it should have a nylon upper gear |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Another question, today I easily removed all the lifters out the top of each bore just using a round magnet. They all look brand new-ish. They may have been replaced by the previous owner. I kept them in order. Just before their removal I rotated the cam shaft (gear and chain removed) with just my fingers watching all lifters go up and down as hoped. No binding or difficulties to be found. I did notice the cam shaft moves front to back about a 1/4 inch with the timing sprocket off but the thrust plate and bolts on. Is this movement considered normal ? Thanks to all so far for your wisdom...........
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torinomike650
Senior Member Joined: 03-March-2019 Location: Palo Alto, CA Status: Offline Points: 989 |
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you sure you don't want to buy a rebuilt 400 engine?
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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idk the cam sprocket may take up some of that slack? put just the sprocket back on snug and see if you still have a 1/4" movement?
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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the cam sprocket and the retainer plate set the camshaft free play, remove the cam sprocket and the cam is able to move much farther than if the sprocket is in place. |
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72 GT Ute
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Thanks for all that information.......Mike : Free shipping to Alaska ?? LOL
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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free shipping? refunds? wtf people, this ain't amazon we're just all car guys like you
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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torinomike650
Senior Member Joined: 03-March-2019 Location: Palo Alto, CA Status: Offline Points: 989 |
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Depending if you pay my price or make me a compelling offer 😉
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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torinomike650
Senior Member Joined: 03-March-2019 Location: Palo Alto, CA Status: Offline Points: 989 |
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@John lol Amazon shipping ain't actually "free", usually just means they won't have any sense of urgency whatsoever in getting it to you or they'll ship it back and forth between states like USPS and tell you that you put the wrong address 😜
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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yep more unskilled labor there too
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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So today I found totally fried bearing inserts on cylinders # 4 & 8. I took a video but can't seem to be able to upload it, sorry. Can someone link me to the post about lubrication / modifications for the rear of these engines? I think I'll need it. LOL
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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First Mod is to remove the timing gears with the nylon teeth and throw them far, far, far away. Then clean out your oil pan pick-up, the oil pump and ALL the oil galleys/passages. Replace every bearing, and while you have the engine apart, pull out the factory valves and replace them with one-piece valves. Give the old valves to someone you really don't like.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Rivercrest
Member Joined: 07-December-2019 Location: Manitoba Canada Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Thanks for that info.
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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Bubba's may be linked, otherwise I think Tim Meyer had pics and explanations of the process. At the very least, smaller diameter push rod holes will give more oil to the crank. I suspect you are gonna be doing the whole thing over.
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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You can post pics taken from your videos using screen shots. Not perfect but at least we can see what you are talking about. I can picture it in my mind and see engines from my past. Lol
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