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Engine/Tranny removal

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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-February-2020 at 4:06PM
hard to see in the pic but i'm not seeing the china wall, and those huge ports it looks like  351 4v to me? i don't think the pistons will come out the bottom, use a lathe type ridge reamer to remove the ridge! probably can rent one for cheap from a parts store Wink
 not left hand threads... impact should do the trick. i took an old sbc valve and heated it up with the torch and bent the stem 90* close to the head you stick it in a dowel hole and place the edge of the valve in a flywheel tooth to hold the crank from turning Wink works slick! but normally i just grab the impact. the rag thing sounds legit
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-February-2020 at 4:20PM
There is a spring loaded flywheel turning tool we used for rotating it to remove the torque converter bolts on gm flywheels. It will definitely hold the things in place so you can apply the leverage to remove the bolts. Cheaper than an impact gun if you don't already have one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 3:05AM
That 400 miles ago work was probably replacing the timing chain and gears.
If bits of the original nylon gears got thru the screen at the oil pump pickup, they will be in the oil galleys, which is the likely cause of oil starved bearings.
Every passage needs to be cleaned out. No short cuts.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
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2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 3:24AM
The plastic gear junk will be in the oil filter not the galleys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 5:58AM
more than likely they clogged the pick up screen and that caused the starvationWink that's what happened on my blazer's original engine to the prior owner someone before him replaced the chain but didn't clean out the panAngry
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 6:26AM
Originally posted by Rivercrest Rivercrest wrote:

Gonna clean up the block / heads and decide the course of action from there. It won't be a race engine, just happy to drive to car shows on weekends.

If you are keeping it stock, it might be worth while to bump the compression a bit with some new pistons, especially if you plan to bore it .030 over.  These motors were pretty low compression from the factory.  Are you planning to replace the cam or reuse?  I am sure Rockatansky can chime in a few easy cheap modifications.  Those D3 4V castings with the smaller valves are good heads.

If your car is a factory 351C-4V car, you should consider getting a Marti report.  You should have a "Q" in at the 5th digit if it was a factory 351-4V car.

Here is a VIN decoder:


Marti Report info is below.  it will give you the history on your car and the number produced like it. 



Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rons73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 7:46AM
The C4 is lighter, and less things to change on the car if you stay stock configuration. I think sticking with the Cleveland is the way to go. If the crank and rods are damaged, I vote stroker upgrade.  Looks stock externally, but better torque for cruising.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 9:02AM
Originally posted by handsofstone handsofstone wrote:

The plastic gear junk will be in the oil filter not the galleys.


in a perfect world.

unfortunately some debris always gets through the pick-up screen and the filter bypass.

the M code and 2V oil screen has a metal strap across the screen, covering a hole through the screen beneath the strap. when the exposed screen clogs the screen gets sucked upwards lifting away from the metal strap and anything close by gets sucked in through the hole in the screen.



the Q code / performance oil pick-up does not have the 'let the crap in' screen bypass feature


debris can also find it's way into bearings by splash / windage, oil getting flung around inside the engine.

was there any crumbled valve stem oil seal material clogging the oil returns in the heads?


Edited by Rockatansky - 02-February-2020 at 9:18AM
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 3:55PM
Thanks to everyone for the recent information, yes the oil pump screen is clean with no debris front the plastic gear. Sending the block out for cleaning next week, I ordered a VIN report (thanks for that source). Gonna do a complete rebuild, will keep everyone posted in the weeks to come. Yes it's a Q motor in the VIN number.....351C 4V original engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 3:59PM
Also, was able to get the flywheel off using the rag in the piston, what a great method.....thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2020 at 4:09PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

Originally posted by handsofstone handsofstone wrote:

The plastic gear junk will be in the oil filter not the galleys.


in a perfect world.

unfortunately some debris always gets through the pick-up screen and the filter bypass.

the M code and 2V oil screen has a metal strap across the screen, covering a hole through the screen beneath the strap. when the exposed screen clogs the screen gets sucked upwards lifting away from the metal strap and anything close by gets sucked in through the hole in the screen.



the Q code / performance oil pick-up does not have the 'let the crap in' screen bypass feature


debris can also find it's way into bearings by splash / windage, oil getting flung around inside the engine.

was there any crumbled valve stem oil seal material clogging the oil returns in the heads?

Man is that nasty. I forgot about the bypass. Hope I don't get to see that up close and personal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2020 at 1:38PM
So today I tore the engine down to short block condition and took it to a trusted engine rebuild shop......this entire operation started because the engine had a serious "squeak" when running. We confirmed that one of the piston connecting rod bearings was totally fried. The bearing took a large chunk out of the crankshaft so we decided a new crankshaft will be required. We also measured cylinder bore and it looks like the cylinders have already been bored out before, probably many miles ago. The machinist, being quite fussy, feels another round off boring would weaken the block. Sorry I don't have all the measurements. "No point in spending a bunch of money on a rebuild only to have to do it again down the road" says the machinist with the caliper in his hand. Good thing is the cam shaft and heads are in good condition. YEA. Next week we are going to look at a supplier who has a good crankshaft with a matching untouched block.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2020 at 4:58PM
A machine shop can refurb your crank to factory specs if you want. I almost took a job out of high school doing fust that. Pretty awesome machinery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2020 at 4:48AM
the block can be bored and sleeves installed to get it back to std bore Wink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2020 at 7:12AM
I would keep the original block in the car myself. Cleaned up and magnafluxed then bored or sleeved. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2020 at 7:35AM
Finding a 351C block isn't easy these days, it might be worth trying to save with sleeves.  At least then it'd still be numbers matching (if that matters to you).

Did the machinist say the crank can't be ground to refurbish it?
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2020 at 10:24AM
I think I have access to an untouched block and matching crank. we will see....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2020 at 4:27PM
Is your block a 4-bolt main? Those are pretty rare as well. If you go with the other block, keep what you have and clean it up. Spray paint the outside and pump some oil into all the exposed surfaces then wrap it in plastic with some dessicant bags in the lifter valley.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2020 at 5:27PM
if it's a "Q" code it's a four bolt main, if it's a "H" code 2v cleveland it's a 2 bolt ,  since your going to be machining it use the 4 bolt caps and add to the 2 bolt block and have it line boredWink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2020 at 2:53AM
Question; The pistons are stamped with a numbering sequence 1- 8 , is that an indication they have been repaired or replaced at one time or could that have been done at the cleveland factory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2020 at 3:28AM
normally the rods are stamped but my windsor wasn't but someone stamped a series of centerpunch dots on the flats of the caps i think some ford weren't originally but on the tops of the pistons will have numbers for the oversize bore if not original ... like 030, 040, 060... bearing usually have 010, 020, 030 if not std... i have seen 1-8 on factory piston tops before too
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2020 at 2:25PM
Rods were typically stamped on the pan side of the rod on the flat where the bolts are. They provide the oil for the piston skirt and only go one way as do the pistons. I haven't seen factory pistons that are numbered. 

On connecting rods, I would never use a punch and mark the caps on the flat part. That is beefed up for strength and why build in weakness. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2020 at 4:19PM
i didn't do it it was that way, i'd use my number stamp set Wink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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