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Engines...how loyal are you?

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Poll Question: How Ford does your Ford have to be?
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BadHabit351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2015 at 7:14AM
Ford's only have Ford motors; no exceptions. I've always been a Ford guy and always will be.

I've cross bred many cars in my days. 260Z with a 302 4 speed, 68 Dodge van with a 351C, 74 Gremlin X with a 383 Chebbie, 70 Malibu with a 390 FE, 69 C-10 with a 500 Caddie, 76 Mercedes with a 340 Mopar, and in progress now an 85 Toyota Celica with an EFI 5.0L and T-5. 

One of the reasons I do mostly Ford motors is because of my familiarity with them and the shock/confusion of why it isn't a sbc. I too am no fan of Chebbie engines. It's not that they're not good engines; it's more that I am a non-comformist. I will have to say that I think the LS Chevy is over rated...but that opinion may be based on the fact that Car Craft does an article on one EVERY month.

It's your car, do what ever you want, just be happy with it. I won't judge you, I just won't personally like what's been done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2015 at 8:05AM
I would agree on the LS topic if Ford had not designed the Modular 4.6 and 5.4 engines so poorly. I've only had 1 LS (never did install it in my Torino), but know many that do run them without issue. However, Ford did a bad number on us with the Modulars (Coyote being the exception) with a super wide design, low horsepower, heavy weight, and the serious design flaws with the heads and intakes. I love my Fords, but until the Coyote 5.0 came out, GM LS and Chrysler Hemi engines just ripped the Modular Fords...and you were in no danger of getting killed by an ejected spark plug from them.

Plus, Modulars are virtually impossible to retrofit into a vintage Ford without serious work. The GM and Mopar late model drivetrains are vastly easier to work with. Imagine a new HellCat Hemi in a Torino with a 6 speed. MMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Edited by unlovedford - 06-November-2015 at 8:13AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2015 at 9:04AM
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

I would agree on the LS topic if Ford had not designed the Modular 4.6 and 5.4 engines so poorly. I've only had 1 LS (never did install it in my Torino), but know many that do run them without issue. However, Ford did a bad number on us with the Modulars (Coyote being the exception) with a super wide design, low horsepower, heavy weight, and the serious design flaws with the heads and intakes. I love my Fords, but until the Coyote 5.0 came out, GM LS and Chrysler Hemi engines just ripped the Modular Fords...and you were in no danger of getting killed by an ejected spark plug from them.

Plus, Modulars are virtually impossible to retrofit into a vintage Ford without serious work. The GM and Mopar late model drivetrains are vastly easier to work with. Imagine a new HellCat Hemi in a Torino with a 6 speed. MMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I disagree with your opinions on Modulars. 

There is no arguing that they are HUGE for their displacement. 

Hp and torque has been acceptable for what 95% of the engines are used for. The other 5% found that the 4.6L would readily accept forced induction...and would live! That combination isn't always mutual. The bottom end of a MOD motor is very strong. 

Design flaws in the heads & intakes? Initially yes, the early ones had 4 threads for the plugs. All PI heads had 7. If the proper procedure is followed torquing the plugs, none get spit out. I too am not a big fan of plastic intakes, but Ford ain't the only ones with that issue. My parents have a Buick 3.8 SC that has the intake replaced every 50-60K miles. I could go on, but I won't.

I'd rather imagine that Torino with a 662 hp GT500 engine and 6 speed. I'd be fairly confident it would last for quite a few years. Not so much with the Fiat motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2015 at 9:40AM
I've always felt the Mod Motors were the result of disgruntled (possibly inebriated) engineers at Ford.
How about self-ejecting spark plugs with a C.O.P. design that then holds the plug against the threads and beats the crap out of the threads (5.4) or the 3 valve engines where part of the plug stays in the head when you remove it, due to a multi-piece plug with a lo-o-o-ng extended tip past the threaded portion that passes thru a tunnel to get to the cylinder and would foul with carbon, sealing the tip in like it was welded. Or, the same plug would turn, and stay together, and snap part of the plug tunnel off and fall into the cylinder. TRY to get to the back plugs on a 97-04 F150 with a 4.6, or worse, a 5.4.
Engines physically larger than a 460, with BARELY half the displacement, Quarter-mile long timing chains, Torque-to-yield head bolts that frequently did (yield) Uggh, Arrgh, enough. I thought there was hope when I saw "phasers" being discussed, but no... another cruel tease.  
.
G.M.s "baby" LS, the 4.8 made 300 H.P. naturally aspirated, in a compact, simple, pushrod design.
Chrysler's 4.7 was an overhead cam engine, again about the same displacement as a 4.6, making around 300 HP naturally aspirated, in a reasonable sized package.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2015 at 9:49AM
I'd like to see a 426 wedged into one of our cars, I might even get round to it if I have time, money and a spare Torino......

as to the modular the guy I know who put one into his Ranchero has had to put a mustang 2 front clip on it as the motor was so fat....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2015 at 11:39AM
You CAN get them in there, Lincoln Continental (FWD) oil pan and pickup tube fit with some fiddling. This is a front-sump pan. 
If you have a unibody torino/ranchero... THAT will take some cutting.


Edited by Big Bird - 06-November-2015 at 11:40AM
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2015 at 12:33PM
You will not find me installing an LS motor in anything. Not a fan of anyone who wants to LS swap a Ford. I am not scared to let people know how I feel when I see one either. If you want an LS motor. Do us all a favor and buy a GM. Please leave them out of our cars. I am not a huge fan of mod motors either. Who puts an engine in a vehicle that you have to lift the body to change one out.

Edited by antlerfiend - 06-November-2015 at 12:34PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2015 at 10:28PM
You must hate every non ford engined Torino then.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 12:31AM
I don't hate the car. I just pretty much hate the Chevy people who make remarks about how Fords suck. It only fuels their fire. That is what I hate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 12:32AM
If you grew up in the neighborhood that I did, you would understand my position on this. If you feel that Chevy makes a better product, by all means go and buy you one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 12:57AM
They're all pretty similar. Remember the Torino is designed by the same guy who did the chevelle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 1:31AM
I like Chevelles. I don't own one but I like them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 5:12AM
I have 135K on my 2003 4.6 no issues, bone stock motor but running slightly upgraded intake system with the Marauder air box, larger MAF, 2004 CVPI zip tube & an Aviator throttle body. an SCT Excal II programmer with a reflash from Lonnie at Blue Oval Chips makes it all play nice with each other. no it wouldn't be my choice to swap into a strange chassis
 
the LS series is a rip-off of Ford's 335 series masterpiece, the Cleveland family. there's even a kit to use a Ford Cleveland distributor for older car swaps & the head bolt pattern is identical! 
 
stock
 
 
non stock. significant difference, who would know?
 


Edited by Rockatansky - 07-November-2015 at 5:15AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote occupant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 3:39PM
I'm currently driving a generic Nissan Altima.

I'd take anything in anything that isn't an appliance at this point.

But I'm revisiting this topic to mention there are plenty of used Coyote engines out there. A junkyard in Aurora IL is offering a complete dropout Coyote with auto trans and wiring harness for $7500. That's not bad for what you get. A yard in Lima has a few manual trans 5.0's for $5800 each.

However, $925 gets me engine ($350), trans ($400), computer ($30), and full underhood wiring harness ($145) for a 4.8 or 5.3 and auto GM truck. That leaves a lot of money on the table versus a Coyote.

At the moment I'm trying to come up with a car for my wife. Suburban is about done for unless I can figure out why it's eating up our tires and making horrible sounds going down the road. Changed hub assemblies, did brakes, did ball joints, it's still feeling like it wants to come apart. I'm going to find her something nice and put the Suburban up for awhile. I have a feeling it's going to be a powertrain donor for my next project and now I'm excited. That 5.3 and 4L60E in any *car* will be awesome. The three ton Suburban moves nice with it, 3.73 gears, and massive 265/75R16 tires (about 31.6" diameter).

4.6 engines are great. I like the way they feel. I don't like how BIG they are. 318 Chryslers and 302 Fords are narrow and fit in tiny little Japanese cars. Mod motors are wider than big block engines. Crazy...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 5:12PM
is your suburban 4X4? if so also check the front CV axles! i just bought a new pair for my s-10 blazer, i've already replaced one hub (stupid design IMO) and now it needs both new hubs, axles, pitman arm and idler arm. i'm sure that the 33x12.50 tires aren't too kind on the bearings but still the o'reily's hub only has about 400 miles and it is sloppy again Angry i'd think it should last longer than that! Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 11:51PM
I like the 4.6 I have in my lil' explorer. Moves it out quite nicely. 
I understand the comments about the size of the Mod. When I first started my F100 project and knew I was putting a crown vic front end on it, I considered using a Mod because I knew I had a large engine bay and could have accommodated it better than something like a Torino. Staying with my 351W though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 11:55PM
The Torino's bay is huge at any rate! I've not seen a mod motor in the flesh but having worked with modern engines (Bentley W12 and V8) I know that they're wider than my 500 cube V8 and have between half to two thirds the displacement! 

Its ridiculous how much extra space they manage to take up, mainly because they're more of a cube shape instead of the traditional V
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2015 at 11:59PM
Originally posted by antlerfiend antlerfiend wrote:

If you grew up in the neighborhood that I did, you would understand my position on this. If you feel that Chevy makes a better product, by all means go and buy you one.

Alex, was it you who was wanting to get a Chevelle and drop in a 351C in it and then take it to shows to see the reactions? LolLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2015 at 1:29AM
Originally posted by Nuggets Nuggets wrote:

The Torino's bay is huge at any rate! I've not seen a mod motor in the flesh but having worked with modern engines (Bentley W12 and V8) I know that they're wider than my 500 cube V8 and have between half to two thirds the displacement! 

Its ridiculous how much extra space they manage to take up, mainly because they're more of a cube shape instead of the traditional V
Your 500 Caddy motor is the best example of big displacement in a small package. It's physically smaller than a Buick 350 and about the same size as a smallblock Oldsmobile. Other than the sump/intake availability issues, it's a great swap engine.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2015 at 1:51AM
The sump isn't really a big issue though, it now basically sits on the factory mounts. You can buy them pre manufactured if you give the dimensions you need to either MTS or 500CID 

Intake wise yeah they aren't great but you've got a few options now, Edelbrock Performer, MTS single plane which is similar to a Torker/Weiand Xcelerator, Boogie man which is like a high rise Torker and thats about all you need really

I did suggest on the Facebook page that a thread on what engines fit in the bay with what mods might be helpful to some. 

Barnaby

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