The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Engine Specific Forum > Small Block Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - evil windsor
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

evil windsor

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
kychevyguy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 16-December-2013
Location: Lexington KY
Status: Offline
Points: 1696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: evil windsor
    Posted: 20-October-2016 at 12:11AM
I have rebuilt about 40 engines in my lifetime. Fords, chevys, a pontiac...I am not what I would consider a novice.  I have been rebuilding my 351W that came out of a 74 Torino.  It has given me fits since the beginning.  It all started when it took forever to remove the cam bearings. None of the lifters would come out either.  To remove the lifters, I had to tap them out from the  bottom. When I started putting it back together, things did not get easier either. I put my new rings in and reinstalled the pistons. Tried to turn it to TDC, no movement! I had to use a cheater bar to get any kind of movement. Pulled the pistons back out. The rings were not touching ends while sitting the the cylinder holes, but they "spread" in their natural state. I reinstalled pistons usually LOTS of oil, rings were very tight to the walls. Got them in one by one, and would spin the engine after each one. Put my heads on, installed the pushrods, and when I was torquing to 18ft lbs I noticed some bolts acted like they were "bottoming out". I came back to it the next day after work and the picture tells of the scene I found.  This engine is out to kill me.
JT, USAF Ret.
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
2013 Chevy Silverado "Bubba"
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 9608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2016 at 2:34AM
Shocked JT did you buy those at a "clearance"sale? were they "half off" Ouch


Edited by californiajohnny - 20-October-2016 at 2:35AM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
kychevyguy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 16-December-2013
Location: Lexington KY
Status: Offline
Points: 1696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2016 at 2:40AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

Shocked JT did you buy those at a "clearance"sale? were they "half off" Ouch

Thanks for the laugh, SA lol
JT, USAF Ret.
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
2013 Chevy Silverado "Bubba"
Back to Top
mtburger View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24-November-2008
Location: Abington, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 286
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2016 at 5:32AM
Really stupid question, but is the valve seized in the guide?

Mike H.
Back to Top
kychevyguy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 16-December-2013
Location: Lexington KY
Status: Offline
Points: 1696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2016 at 5:35AM
Originally posted by mtburger mtburger wrote:

Really stupid question, but is the valve seized in the guide?

Mike H.

Nope, not at all.
JT, USAF Ret.
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
2013 Chevy Silverado "Bubba"
Back to Top
green 72 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 27-April-2010
Location: Manchester,Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote green 72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2016 at 6:54AM
these heads look like they are the adjustable valve train kind - non pedestal ones. They are adjusted similar to solids but are not torqued down like pedestal ones if that helps. looks like you just bottomed everything out and broke it.

Dan                             1972 GTS Formal       
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 9608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2016 at 2:56PM
JT, do you need another stock rocker? I have all of mine from my car that i replaced!!!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
kychevyguy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 16-December-2013
Location: Lexington KY
Status: Offline
Points: 1696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2016 at 6:13AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

JT, do you need another stock rocker? I have all of mine from my car that i replaced!!!

yes sir, just let me know what you want for it to include mailing.
JT, USAF Ret.
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
2013 Chevy Silverado "Bubba"
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 9608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2016 at 8:40AM
Free, just pay shipping how many do you want?
PM me your address JT
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3058
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-October-2016 at 2:53AM
If you are using the original equipment type of rocker arm studs, then those are called "Positive Stop" rocker arm studs. You install the pushrod, rocker arm and fulcrum and install the rocker stud nut and tighten the nut down until it touches the fulcrum shoulder. And then you tighten the nut to 17 to 23 foot pounds. This is supposed to be done at zero lift of the cam lobe, with the hydraulic lifter fully bled down.
 
If you have had the cylinder head to engine block mating surfaces milled/resurfaced and/or the engine block to cylinder head mating surface milled/resurfaced (Engine Deck Height). And/or if you have done a valve job and/or valve seat job this can all change the dimensions and geometry of the valvetrain.
 
There are 0.60" undersized and 0.60" oversized pushrods available. There are custom made undersize and oversize pushrods available in different lengths. There are rocker arm shims available. There are also ways of measuring the rocker arm to valve lash.


Edited by dave302 - 22-October-2016 at 2:59AM
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 9608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-October-2016 at 4:31AM
Or just get some 5/16 lock nuts so you set them at o lash without torquing them down at the bottom
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-October-2016 at 1:58PM
the stud on the not broken rocker shows a LOT of threads above the nut, I'd be a little worried that they're all down too far, possible the broken rocker encountered retainer to guide interference as the reason for the break
 
when you remove the broken rocker play with the fulcrum ball on the stud, does it come to rest on a shoulder after the threads or does it slide all the way down the shank?
 
what I do to determine lifter plunger preload is find the point of adjustment that the pushrod is at zero lash by spinning the pushrod in your fingers as you tighten the nut. there will be a change in the feeling of the spin in your fingers when all the lash is taken up. now accurately count how many turns after zero lash to your final setting whether it's non-adjustable to the bottom out & TQ point or whatever you choose as your adjustment, 1/4, 1/2. 3/4 turn whatever you use
 
divide the number of threads per inch on the stud into 1 inch to find what distance 1 full turn is then find for the setting you used. if the nuts are 5/16-18 then  1 full turn moves the nut .0555"
 
1/2 turn is .0277" ... 3/4 turn is .0416" ... or you can put a dial indicator on the pushrod end of the rocker & eliminate the rocker ratio from the equation Wacko but the point is to make sure you're not bottoming the plunger or the nut at the end of the threads and crashing the retainers to the top of the valve guides
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-October-2016 at 2:03PM
on the bottom end rotational TQ, are you sure it's not the tightening of the rods that's causing the excessive force needed to turn the assy?
 
it should only need around 25# to turn / max 50#, are you sure you have the right bearings & rod caps not flipped around or swapped on different rods?
 
I've seen multiple times professional mech's & engine builders getting wrong bearings, also heard of a dirt track racers trick to stamp the numbers wrong on purpose in case their engine got 'claimed' by another racer ... they'd never be able to get it back together & run it again w/o destroying it LOL 
 
Originally posted by kychevyguy kychevyguy wrote:

... installed the pushrods, and when I was torquing to 18ft lbs I noticed some bolts acted like they were "bottoming out". I came back to it the next day after work and the picture tells of the scene I found.  This engine is out to kill me.
 
I think you may have an adjustable rocker set up there? 


Edited by Rockatansky - 22-October-2016 at 2:08PM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 9608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-October-2016 at 6:58PM
did you put in a new aftermarket/performance cam and lifters? if so are the slots in the bottom of the rockers long enough so not to bind at full lift?


JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2016 at 3:57AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

did you put in a new aftermarket/performance cam and lifters? if so are the slots in the bottom of the rockers long enough so not to bind at full lift?
 
Yup, gotta check that too. some factory parts don't allow much room for improvement before they reach their limits. unrelated example the 351M/400 can't take hardly any additional cam lift before the retainers crash the guides, around .480" lift is the limit, and that's not much over stock. what those engines need is a set of aftermarket retainers to gain clearance ... I see you have the factory valve rotators just like the 351M/400 uses, I wonder if you're having the same issue? 
 
I noticed it yesterday but it didn't click, see the marks on the top of the retainer where the 1/2 rocker is missing?
 
just as bad as anything else the rockers can't contact the tops of the retainers or the keepers can come loose and the valve goes into the cylinder (that's bad)
 
you may need a set of long slot or roller rockers and change the valve spring retainers. might as well swap out the 40 year old valve springs while you're there too. it doesn't have to break the bank, check out http://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spring-kit-sb-ford-w-393-tip-length-drop-in-fit-7-degree-hardware/ if that's the right kit for your engine, set these up at 1.810" and you should be golden


Edited by Rockatansky - 23-October-2016 at 4:10AM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.