Swamp Thang: Electrical issues? |
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Posted: 01-November-2013 at 2:44AM |
Hey gang,
We are trying to save a '73 Torino Squire that found itself in the middle of the September flooding we had here in Colorado. The car had been a driver that was parked for at least 8 years before the flood came. The water made it just to the top of the ash tray, just below the bottom of the radio. The car is running again, and we've made it just around the block a few times. Most of the electrical systems appear to be working, with a few exceptions. 1-I cannot get any idiot lights to come on. They worked the first 4 or 5 times we cranked the engince (to eject the water/Marvel Mystery Oil/WD-40 potion from the block), but they stopped coming on after that.
2-Neither of the turn signal indicators (on the dash) were working. They did eventually start working, but when the blinkers are turned off, the right dash indicator stays on. Now, this car is a factory "Trailering Special", with Ford trailer wiring. (Never saw that on a wagon before now.) There are turn signal and emergency flashers in the fuse box under the dash, but also flashers behind the right rear taillight. Is that typical on these wagons? 3-I got the factory service manuals, and to diagnose the electrical issues with the warning lights, they said to reference Car Diagnosis Manual FD 7962. Argh! So I found ONE copy of 7962: 3 notebooks with flow charts. I purchased these, but I fear they may be incomplete. I see no reference to any electrical diagnoses. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jason & Sam |
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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you might have to go through every connection, behind the dash including the printed circuit with something like this stuff... Deoxit http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f
Edited by Rockatansky - 02-November-2013 at 9:51AM |
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72 GT Ute
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GTW
Senior Member Joined: 21-January-2012 Location: SC Status: Offline Points: 5784 |
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Welcome and glad you saved the wagon!
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Griffin
1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Just got the gas tank back today. Had it reconditioned and repaired. Does anyone know where to get a sending unit for these? Or at the very least, a sending unit seal?
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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they pop up from time to time, NOS in the box... Whoa you're in luck here comes one now!
FWIW the fuel sender isn't rocket science, IMO the most important feature is the direction the tube exits the sender. the inside tube you can fab to suit your tank, slight bend tweek or complete cut / replace with the correct shape & length if necessary. if you're not confident brazing or soldering the tube have a radiator shop zap it together for you here's another that looks like it'd be 'workable' the seal should be the easy part, i'd look at the Mustang parts places. just curious, does you tank use a lock ring & the same seal for the breather like the sender, or is it a push in grommet with a plastic breather insert? can you post pics of the tank? if you have any other rubber parts like the filler grommet & hose, filler breather hose, vent/seal/grommet/hose etc i'd replace them all now, when I did my tank all that rubber was junk. also be aware that old school rubber doesn't hold up to today's gasoline blend, the methanol eats through it. you need the special Poly Teflon lined hose or it won't last
Edited by Rockatansky - 03-November-2013 at 5:27AM |
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72 GT Ute
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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lock ring & seal
besides the Mustang parts houses, check Green Sales Edited by Rockatansky - 03-November-2013 at 5:31AM |
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72 GT Ute
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Sand blasted and unclogged the sending unit today. I think we'll be able to use this!
The tank has a separate breather that comes out the top. It's a plastic valve that's just pressed into a rubber grommet. I'll try and get some pics. |
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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good new$ on the sender then! the rubber grommet is the 74+ style as far as Rancheros go, but it's a different tank I know... 1973 was a year of many mysteries, possible that early 73 were made with the 1972 style metal vent with the lock ring & seal like the sender, that's the way my 1972 Rancho tank was but I ended up swapping it all over to 74+ style how's your filler grommet, hose connector & breather hose look?, like I said mine were trashed
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72 GT Ute
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Gazoo2
Member Joined: 14-September-2010 Location: Calgary,Alberta Status: Offline Points: 63 |
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The relays behind the taillight are part of the trailer package. If they are filled with water then I would expect all sorts of problems with your signals and brake lights. You probably will need to replace them. The good news is that probably just about any similar Ford relays will work. Worst case, you would have to splice in new auto-parts store relays and plugs. Relays are generally marked as to which terminal is which so adapting them is pretty easy.
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72 GranTorino "rat wagon" 351C, a work in progress
69 Mustang Mach 1, 351w, Borg Warner T5, rack & pinion steering, fuel injected |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Welcome from another wagon owner. Glad you save her!
Yes, if in doubt, replace them. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Rockatansky, thanks for the tip on the contact cleaner. The issue appears to be corrosion between the bulbs and sockets. A quick cleaning with a brush restored continuity with the volt meter. Just waiting for the cleaner to arrive and I'll replace all the bulbs and flashers, hose it down and put it back together.
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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I can't take full credit, picked up the tip from Ranchero.circus but it looked like solid intel when I saw it
hope the stuff works for ya
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72 GT Ute
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Cleaned all the contacts. Replaced bulbs. Still no warning lights.
I'm out of ideas, and SO frustrated with this car. |
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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Dan the ranchero man
Senior Member Joined: 24-July-2011 Location: Mchenry,IL Status: Offline Points: 1174 |
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start checking ground connections. I would check the ignition switch as well. The trick is to stay with it. If it pisses you off just walk a way and regroup. Go at it again with a fresh mind another day. Been there done that. You will get her running right again.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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SOMETIMES JUST UNPLUGGING/RECONNECTING THE CONNECTORS A FEW TIMES MAY GET THE CONTACT GOING AGAIN. SINCE IT WAS THAT FAR UNDER WATER, ANOTHER SPOT YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK IS THE MAIN BULKHEAD WIRE CONNECTOR AT THE FIREWALL RIGHT BY THE BRAKE BOOSTER
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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GTW
Senior Member Joined: 21-January-2012 Location: SC Status: Offline Points: 5784 |
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Please don't get so frustrated that you junk the car...there's not a lot of these wagons left, let alone Squires.
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Griffin
1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Just an update: still working on the idiot lights. Replaced the ignition switch. Still doesn't work. The lights glow very dim, so you can only barely see them at night. I'm thinking maybe a bad ground? Not sure, still frustrated as HELL. I gutted the car finally, so hopefully I'll be able to get to more wiring.
Got the gas tank back in, and it's nice to be able to run the car on its own tank without having a bottle under the hood. The power seat appears to be stripped, only on the drivers' side. Not sure what that's all about but I haven't tackled it yet. Still pluggin away! And still can't find a heated rear window for it. |
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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Dan the ranchero man
Senior Member Joined: 24-July-2011 Location: Mchenry,IL Status: Offline Points: 1174 |
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Don't foret to check the fuse box and the bulkhead that attaches to it. Lots of area there for corrosion to set in. Check the headlight plugs too.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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which lights glow dim? headlights or all of the lights?
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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GTW
Senior Member Joined: 21-January-2012 Location: SC Status: Offline Points: 5784 |
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GLAD you kept it!!!
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Griffin
1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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The only lights that aren't working (just BARELY glow) are the oil and alternator idiot warning lights. Y'know, when you turn the ignition on, before you crank the engine. And the right front parking light barely glows. That blinker isn't working either, though everything else is.
I did disconnect the two main bulkheads(?) that go to the firewall just to the left of the brake booster, and cleaned them out. Also cleaned all contacts on the gauge cluster, and replaced all of those bulbs. Replaced the ignition switch. Replaced both flashers under the dash, but not the ones behind the right taillight (in the factor trailer wiring harness). |
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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re: idiot lights, this may sound dumb, but did you look inside where the bulbs go, to see if that chamber for the light was coated with a layer of dried muck (making them show dim?) could also be a bad ground somewhere. what do they do with the engine running any change? also try removing the sending unit wire from the water and oil and ground it directly to ground (with the key on engine not running) the light should show full bright, try that on each, then no ground/ jumper wire, unhooked from sender, key on, light should be off.
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Torinogts73c
Senior Member Joined: 14-February-2004 Location: Tucson Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1034 |
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RE: IDIOT LIGHTS have you checked the voltage regulator? Also I have had problems with my printed circuit board have had to clean the contact area where the bulb holders twist in at. I used contact cleaner and an eraser on a pencil to clean those areas up!
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Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,17 Mustang Ecoboost,15 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD, Ford Ranger parts hauler
"Never complain Never explain" Henry Ford |
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Californiajohnny, I followed you for a little while but then ya lost me. The dash cluster is all cleaned out. The water didn't get that high, only to the top of the ashtray (I don't think the radio got wet...best damn AM radio I've seen). I get what you're saying about unplugging the sending unit (for the oil) and grounding it directly. I'll try that and see if it changes anything. I got lost after that.
The lights go off when the engine is running. There was a long process after getting the car home of draining water and flushing everything, etc. When I was finally ready to crank the engine, the warning lights worked great. Probably the first 5 or 6 times I cranked it they worked. After that, nothing. Torinogts73c, I have checked the regulator, but I haven't delved into it. The printed circuit board on the back of the dash cluster did have some gunk on the back, barely visible, but it was reading some resistance on the meter, so I cleaned it all out. I used good contact cleaner, and replaced all the bulbs. |
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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The issue here is I can't quite figure out what triggers the warning light test cycle. I don't see any relays or anything. Now that the interior is stripped, I hope to be able to explore more. Also, I don't see how to get the fuse block off the inside of the firewall. There are a ton of wires with labels saying they're for the trailer wiring harness. I think these are getting in the way. :(
I'll make some more progress this weekend hopefully.
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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smhj
Senior Member Joined: 01-November-2011 Location: erie pa Status: Offline Points: 266 |
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The 2 wire harness beside the brake booster unplug them then fuse box should pop off.
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73MONTEGO
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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^ from the engine bay side use a 5/16" to remove the 2 connector blocks from the back side of the fuse box. then there's a 4 little squeeze retainer clips holding the fuse box to the firewall, they may or may not be real strong but I always push down on the 2 on to & let the fuse box tip into the passenger compartment
be careful tightening them back up they're only going into plastic when you said the lights were good for 5-6 cranks then not, I suspect the bat terminal connection on the solenoid. that's where the feed wire is for all the dash & interior there also may be a ground or 2 on the metal support bracket for the lower dash. sounds like that might've got wet. matter of fact the whole dash harness runs along the bottom of the dash under the column. de-oxing |
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72 GT Ute
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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basically the idiot lights get positive power when you turn on the key, and the ground is made through the sending unit, oil pressure when engine starts makes the ground lose contact so if oil pressure drops too low it makes a ground connection and turns on the light, water sender heats up inside a piece of metal makes contact if too hot and turns on the light.
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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I don't get that part either |
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72 GT Ute
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Turbo
New Member Joined: 17-October-2013 Location: Fort Collins CO Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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We pulled the fuse boxes this past weekend, cleaned everything with Deoxit, and put it back together. Several of the fuses had gotten water inside them. Didn't see any obvious ground points under the dash, but we need to look again. One small victory: I got the parking brake working again.
I thought I'd post a couple of pictures. This is the repaired gas tank before we installed it. The tank was seriously crusty inside, and had already been poorly repaired by a previous owner. I was wondering if anyone knows that this part is? It attaches to the starter solenoid on the right fender. I tested it for continuity and it needs to be replaced, but I have no idea what the part is so I can order a new one. |
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1973 Gran Torino Squire submarine
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