Cardone steering gearbox replacement opinions ??? |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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BMF, I did not mean to insinuate that you would continue driving or refuse to fix an unsafe vehicle, if it came out that way and/or you read it that way, I apologize. In my response, I was referring to myself when I wrote myself, my family or other folks/family's, I was not referring to you or any other member. Sometimes what I write doesn't come out as well or as articulate as I would like . Todd |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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bmf
Member Joined: 06-February-2011 Location: Chico Ca Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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No appology needed. I did not take it that way at all. After all, I did ask for opinions. I tend to put whole paragraphs int 3or4 words. I know what I intended, but others, not so much.Sorry for the drama,
Ray
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"I am completely broke and have the ability to sustain that"
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Todd, I found this situation on 3 of my steering columns. Afraid to pull the ones on my drivers.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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I am glad you brought this back up, I may have found some conflicting information about these couplers and the spline counts. I found where the replacement couplers have 32 splines(Ford box) and 10 splines(Saginaw box). I can not confirm, either way, if these are correct spline counts for a "factory" coupler. These could just be what the aftermarket has designed. The Saginaw coupler has less splines but has a flat area inside the coupler to aid in "locating" the steering box input shaft(the splines are always opposite the flat area inside the coupler). The Ford box coupler looks to be fully splined, not sure if it also has an internal flat area like the Saginaw coupler has. I have tried to research this but I do not have any concrete evidence for or against my initial findings. I do know that the couplers I have, DO show signs of corrosion and spline deterioration, I just hope I didn't set off any un-needed alarms posting my earlier findings. Todd BTW, those splines look to be compromised. Looks like something is causing the splines to wear away or wear out . Todd Edited by aquartlow - 30-March-2014 at 2:56PM |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Wow, thank you guys.
I know on my GTS my police box is about done. My steering has gotten worse over the last year. Went from tight to gradually more loose. My front end is getting a full rebuild in the next few months. I'm being lazy, but anyone have the links for the box and the steering couplers? I have the 1971 Boss mustang box from Paul Psquare75, but it's got old seals. Now I'm curious on the shape of mine.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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I don't think I've ever pulled one of those apart that DIDN'T have some of the splines mashed down.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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My Squire wagon's were in excellent condition when I did the swap on it, but that car led a very sheltered life before I got it. I dread looking at the others.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Todd, is there a buildup on the use of Jeep internals on your box?
I was also digging around and came across a guy off the 460forum, and he was on Supermotors, and mentioning a mod on his from upper arms to get rid of some unwanted issues our suspension design suffers from. What about the hoses? Assuming the Lares uses different hoses?
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Sorry, further clarification:
The 841 box, does it use the Ford gear box hoses, or does it use the saginaw box hoses? |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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There are some variables on these cars. I swapped a '96-'98 Grand Cherokee Saginaw box into my Squire wagon. Direct fit, output shaft was indexed every 90 degrees so I just repositioned my arm. Input shaft coupling was one I had in my garage, fit perfectly. VAST difference in the feel and would be even better with a plastic pump, as the discharge hole in the plastic pump is larger (more firm feel).
Others have said that the holes in their frames don't match up to that box or the coupling would not work. I plan on doing the exact same swap on my red wagon this month using a GC box and the plastic pump (eliminating that awful manual steering) when I do my other mods. Hopefully it will bolt on as easily as the other did. I will make a thread and show pictures as I go, if that will help. Somewhere on here is a thread where I showed the similarities in the Saginaw and Jeep boxes and the regular Ford box - perhaps someone can find it? |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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Post some pics of your JGC steering box installed, I'm interested for sure. The mounting bolt locations differ from a Ford/Mercury intermediate, at least for my application anyway. This is a pic of a '94 Jeep Grand Cherokee Saginaw steering box. Here is a pic of a mid to late 70's Ford Ranchero Saginaw steering box, notice the differences in mounting bolt locations. . I know if the JGC box was a direct bolt-in for my application, I would not have went to the trouble of swapping parts. Todd |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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Andy, Sorry, I have no write-up or pics of the swapping of parts. I just picked up another JGC steering box to swap the internals to a box I originally removed from my Ranchero to save if the other swap didn't work out. It WILL get the JGC internals, it makes that much of a difference. I will take a bunch of pics, but it will be a while before I get a chance to work on the boxes. When I swapped the internals I kept the original input rotary valve to keep the input shaft spline to steering coupler the same. I changed the rack, the worm gear and the ball bearings, I used a rebuild kit designed for a '79 Ranchero gear box, everything went together correctly with no machine work. The JGC has the same degrees of output shaft rotation so the internal stops from the Ford/Saginaw box works correctly(a Camaro/Firebird/Monte Carlo quick ratio box has less degrees of output shaft rotation which equals a larger turning radius=not good). It was a pretty straight-forward operation, messing with the ball bearing was the worst part. Todd Edited by aquartlow - 01-May-2014 at 11:45AM |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
|
Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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you guys ready for this, hold on to something...
the Cherokee off road guys swap out their Jeep box & use a Dodge a guy I worked with told me the Dodge box is stronger does the interchange reach all the way back to Ford intermediates... IDK here's a forum post that came up in a quick search http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/durango-steering-box-swap-simplified-184573/ Edited by Rockatansky - 01-May-2014 at 1:03PM |
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72 GT Ute
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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I don't know what year Torino box you have pictured, but it is not like the ones I used. If you search under this section for Cherokee Box, I included pictures of a '74 Torino Saginaw box, '72 Ford box, '96 GC box, and a '98 GC box. The '74 Torino has an extra mounting boss you need not use (4). I pulled these off ZJ Jeeps I was parting out. The one on my brown wagon works great. Front steer or rear steer makes no difference, as the output shaft is indexed every 90 degrees, so you just flip the direction.
I will make detailed pictures of the swap on my red wagon when I do it next month. Edited by unlovedford - 01-May-2014 at 3:03PM |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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I was getting ready to just pop for the 841 lares box. I have the '71 boss mustang box I got from Paul a while back, but it's a leaker and I'm just debating about things. Figure just go with a reman box.
I have a local rebuilder here I am going to deal with, I have a stack of four ford boxes I was going to give him just so they could revoker parts if they needed them. I don't see rebuilding a box that big a deal but I'm in the mindset I'll let a shop do it as they have the know-how and I like steering my car lol. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Didn't mean to confuse anyone on the gear box alternatives. It is just what worked for me. The heavy duty forum replacement box for a ZJ is a Dodge Durango box. However, it is physically larger - probably prohibitively so. XJ and ZJ Jeeps have plenty of room in that area, so not a big deal.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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Here are a couple of pics of the steering boxes I have on hand and will use for the quick ratio internals swap, one of a Jeep Grand Cherokee and one of a '79 Ranchero steering box, both built by Saginaw. Here is the JGC steering gear. Here is the Ranchero gearbox. These pics show the different mounting bolt locations, not sure when Ford changed this(one of Ford's "better ideas" I guess). The Ranchero gearbox was removed when I installed the quick ratio rebuilt gearbox, so I know it fits correctly. I hope I haven't added any confusion to this topic. Todd |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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