@&$!%$@& Headers |
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mlachance112785
Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2012 Location: Dighton, MA Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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Posted: 11-August-2014 at 8:03PM |
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Just an afterthought, are you using the Ford mounts, or Crites mounts. The Crites mounts drop the motor about an inch to the frame/crossmember. One of the primarys on the driver's side is pretty much resting on the crossmember. Which would make it ever more of a pain to get in. It seems the headers have clearanced themselves in a couple spots. For what it's worth, I used those Remflex gaskets, with ARP header bolts, and haven't had an issue. I know they leak a tiny bit, but it's no worse than what it was the day I bolted the headers back up. No Locktite, and no Permatex for me.
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77 Cougar XR7 460/C6
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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ULTRA COPPER on ALL exhaust gaskets I have installed in the last 20 years!!
NEVER put an exhaust gasket on without it! You could also use a touch of ULTRA BLUE around the ports on the flange itself to ensure it fills any voids THEN with the Ultra Copper and a good gasket... no issues. As for header bolts... I too have never had any issues with just bolts and lock washers.
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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MarkGubinski
Senior Member Joined: 17-March-2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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Weird. I've always run the Hookers. Never had a problem. They seal & stay tight when u us good reusable gaskets. I can get all my bolts in & out & change gaskets in the car no problem. And that's on both race cars. Sorry, just lucky I guess.
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72 Gran Torino Sport 557
10.12 @136 @3600lbs. 2 Time Milan Dragway Track Champion. 2012 IHRA Div. 5 No-Box Champion. 97 career wins. |
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dave302
Senior Member Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
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Click Here to see this item for sale.
Click Here to see this item for sale. |
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dave302
Senior Member Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
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Click Here to see these bolts for sale. Edited by dave302 - 03-August-2014 at 9:23AM |
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dave302
Senior Member Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
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Click Here to see these gaskets for sale, but it says that they are out of stock right now. Click Here to see another seller that sells them, but it says that they are out of stock right now.
Edited by dave302 - 03-August-2014 at 10:32AM |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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ARP 400-1105 and ARP 400-1106 are six point header bolts (0.750 and 0.875 lengths) that are pre-drilled for safety wire (also known as lock wire). They do not have the recessed hex head like some of the others, but since I can get a pair on now (non pre-drilled ARP header bolts) this should work. I can see putting the safety wire on in some of the locations being possibly problematic because of the space limitations. Otherwise a reasonable solution.
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Scott Eklund
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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The set I posted pics of were about 3 years old, no leaks, but only about 5-6K miles. Just saw on Powerblock today that Mr. Gasket makes a header gasket using dead-soft aluminum, looked OK just didn't give a lot of info on them.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6053 |
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I'm not gonna jump on the thread locker or safety wire wagon right off, I have a feeling there's some amount of heat cycle expansion / relaxation of the gaskets... you'll want to snug down new gaskets at some point early on in their life maybe a couple times or more?
on those hard to reach bolts even the Stage 8 C-clips would be a bear to do a snugger with a BBF I could do a snugger with a 3/8 combo wrench in about 6 minutes on the 351C has anyone ever gotten a set of header gaskets to last more than a couple months? does anyone think it's possible to use a high rate spring loaded bolt set-up, or would the heat kill the springs? bellevilles ?
Edited by Rockatansky - 03-August-2014 at 6:52AM |
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72 GT Ute
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14603 |
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i'm not sure the locktight will be that effective on the headers due to the fact that they generate about the same heat required to remove the locktighted bolts! great product! comes in blue (removeable with a wrench) red (heat to remove) green (supposed to be higher strength-- i've never found that to be any different than the red*) but if the stage 8 bolts won't work, yeah safety wiring them should do the trick! (just have to cross drill all the bolt heads) i don't recall ever seeing any header bolts drilled for safety wire
Edited by californiajohnny - 03-August-2014 at 6:42AM |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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The stage 8 header bolts and the remflex gaskets look like a possible alternative to try. I will have to look closer at my headers to see if either the style with the long pieces or the shorter ones John found would work. Seems reasonable, though. The ARP locking header bolts also have some potential in my opinion (I learned how to safety wire in the Air Force, so while access is tough it could be done).
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Scott Eklund
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dave302
Senior Member Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
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Here is a lower cost alternative idea: but you will probably have to heat the header bolts up to a temperature between 500 to 550 degrees with a propane torch to loosen them up, if you have to remove them. I do not know if this is a product that the ford motor company recommends for their exhaust manifold bolts. But this product is within the specificatations of General Motors Part Number: 12345493, which is the same threadlocker that General Motors recommends (in their service manual), to be used on the exhaust manifold bolts of the 1997 through 2006 Chevrolet C5 Corvettes. General Motors might even recommend it for use on other years of the Corvette and other General Motors vehicles also. The part number for this threadlocker is 24026. Edited by dave302 - 05-August-2014 at 7:06AM |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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I do remember the huge ports, intake and exhaust, on my fathers '71 351 CJ engine we installed into his '73 Mach1. Not sure if there are gaskets that have enough material to seal the factory port and seal the Hooker's weld bead correctly(other than the Flatout racing #7021, not saying these are the only ones either). The weld bead design actually helps with sealing each header tube to it's respected exhaust port, but the condition that Hooker leaves this weld bead leaves much to be desired. If Hooker could leave a sealing bead that was an honest 3/16" wide all they way around and flat, I believe the leaks would be reduced if not totally eliminated. As much as the 6126's cost, I don't think this isn't too much to ask for. I still to this day don't understand the differences in the 6126's actual port size as compared a stock D2VE or D3VE-A2A exhaust port, that these headers were designed to fit('72-'75 Torino, Ranchero, Montego and etc. with 460-C6). Here some pics of the exhaust gaskets and how wide the weld bead contacts the stock 460 port size. This shows the gasket contacts all of the head's exhaust port, with a little extra. This pic shows a marker outlining the outside of the 460 exhaust port, even with the larger sized port openings these gaskets have, they still need a little more margin width at the top of the port for better header sealing. Scary huh! They never leaked after about 5K miles, but I still don't like it. |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6053 |
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^^ this I also found that various makers gaskets have different size port openings, some seem to be designed for flat flanges (only explanation I could come up with) as the port opening skirts in & out of the weld bead perimeter. they'll leak the first time you fire it up & burn out worse from there bottom line is that I don't recall ever finding a PN packaged gasket that would seal my 351C-4V supercomps, not even a 351C-2V gasket could be modified because the outside perimeter is so different that it causes a leak. I even thought about stacking gaskets trimmed to envelope the weld beads but never did get to it, I ended up temporarily swapping on 2V heads so I made sandwich plates to adapt the 4V headers to the 2V X ports. basically just a 16g plate with 4V outside perimeter & 2V port holes can a std BBF gasket be opened up to your port or header bead / whichever is smaller & still seal around the outside?
Edited by Rockatansky - 02-August-2014 at 6:56PM |
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72 GT Ute
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dave302
Senior Member Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
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ARP also makes header bolts that are pre-drilled for safety wire to run through all the bolt heads, to stop them from loosening up. But unfortunately these ARP drilled header bolts are only available in two lengths which are: 0.750" UHL (under head length) and 0.875" UHL (under head length). I do not know if they will be long enough for your application.
Click Here to see the size 0.875" header bolts for sale. Click Here to see the size 0.750" header bolts for sale. Click here to see the ARP size 0.875" UHL header bolts for sale from a different seller, This seller is advertising them as stainless steel.
Edited by dave302 - 05-August-2014 at 7:00AM |
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dave302
Senior Member Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
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Click Here to see more locking header bolt kits (for the ford 460-521 engines) for sale, including the ford racing brand (and summit racing brand) locking header bolt kits.
Edited by dave302 - 03-August-2014 at 4:26AM |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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Be careful in what gaskets you choose(if you plan on using a header gasket), even using the larger port header gaskets from Flatout racing only leaves, at best, about 1/8" of gasket in some places to seal the headers to the heads. The 6126 exhaust port's gasket "ring" is larger(mainly taller) than a base 429/460 head (C8VE, C9VE, D0VE-C or D3VE-A2A), please check this yourself to verify the measurements of the gasket against your head's exhaust ports and the 6126's ports. A slightly larger port header gasket is needed, just don't know how much "extra" material is left beyond the stock port on other manufacturer's gaskets. I will try to post pics later to show what I am referring to.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14603 |
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they also show this style too:
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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Has anyone used the stage eight bolt kit on an actual pair of hooker 6126's mounted on a 460 inside a mid size? I ask because they look really cool but those recessed areas that some of the bolts get "pushed" into might make it difficult to install? I could barely get the arp small bolts in there. Also would one inch be too long?
Edited by GranTorinoSport - 02-August-2014 at 10:44AM |
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Scott Eklund
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dave302
Senior Member Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14603 |
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scott, i was trying to remember the company that makes these gaskets, so i just asked at the local parts store, i've never used their gaskets yet but lots of local people have and said that they work great, no complaints! and they're made here in washington.
http://catalog.remflex.com/ |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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Doesn't Permatex make a spray-on Ultra Copper for high temp gasket applications? Spray and let set before assembly of stuff like metal exhaust gaskets?
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Scott Eklund
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6053 |
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not directed toward anyone in particular
even the bestest most expensive gaskets won't last if they're not supported between the squeeze in my case with the 351C-4v exhaust port, it is admittedly a very difficult port to produce a weld bead header flange that'll seal. I really think it should've been a flat flange. if you have any inkling that your gasket will not be completely supported by the squeeze, do an impression with cardboard. just assemble the header to the head with compressable cardboard as a gasket, then remove the cardboard & inspect it on both sides to make sure there are no burn through spots waiting for a new set of gaskets yeah I can imagine that the RTV method can get messy for sure, tight spaces & ooey gooey stuff maybe the 20 min waiting period mentioned has something to do with letting it skin over
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72 GT Ute
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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PM sent.....
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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75GranMan
Senior Member Joined: 05-April-2011 Location: Colchester, CT Status: Offline Points: 1225 |
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I have a brand new set of stage 8 locking header bolts 3/8" X 1" for sale. PM any interests.
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John 75Gran Torino 4spd
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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Not sure if the above comment was pointed toward myself, but I wouldn't be the one leaving a mess, believe me I take pride in my work(at times too much). I would like to see the end results from anyone using the red or copper high temp sealants for sealing headers to the exhaust ports AFTER snaking them into position and not have the sealant smeared either on the headers, the exhaust ports and/or their hands. Not saying you couldn't wipe it off and/or get good results, I was just suggesting that "good" header gaskets are manufactured for a reason, why not use them. |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6053 |
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there are those that should be dis-allowed from; purchasing, possessing, engaging in the practice of, using, applying or dabbling in whatnot & wherefor anything to with semi-viscous putty & gel like substances that cure to an aesthetic permanent condition you know who you are! doesn't make you a bad dude by any means but damn step away from the tube For Pete's Sake it took me like 16 hours to un-caulk my bathroom & re-caulk it again because my guy, it looked he didn't even wash his hands after doing wallboard & tile repair then smeared dirty caulk all over the walls. Thanks A Lot A Man Has Got To Know His Limitations ~ Harry Calahan Edited by Rockatansky - 01-August-2014 at 2:36PM |
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72 GT Ute
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14603 |
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stage 8 locking header bolts:
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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My Crites 460 headers arrived today. I'll post some pics of them tomorrow..... Doesn't Stage 8 offer a locking header bolt?? |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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