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conard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 4 Speed
    Posted: 27-August-2014 at 8:44PM
Hi I hope this finds everyone well

I am planing in the future to do a 4 speed conversion and have a chance to buy a 4 speed with the following numbers on the case DVDR-7006-A-A  It may be D7DR (not sure) It also has 286 on the side also  Would this be a usable trans for me I am thinking either a 400 or a 460 engine  Thanks  Conard
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dave302 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-August-2014 at 10:55PM
This transmission was mostly used on 1977 granadas and monarchs that had the 250 6 cylinder and 302 V8 engines. I wouldn't put too much power through it like a built 400 or 460 engine.
I have heard that there are only four bolt holes on the front of the bellhousing for the large bellhousing engines, not eight bolt holes (like the 400 and 460 engines have).
 
Try to get the RUG number (it will say something like RUG-E or HEH-E) from the right front side of the trans (it might be on a tag) and post it here, and i will try to find out more about it for you.


Edited by dave302 - 27-August-2014 at 11:13PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-August-2014 at 11:06PM

The name "Top Loader" just means that the top cover is removeable and the parts go into the case from the top. There is really nothing special about it.

Although the 4 speed commonly known as the "Ford Top Loader" generally is thought of as the cast iron one they had in the 1960's to mid 1970's, not the later variants of it.

 
It is also known as a three speed with overdrive = Four Speed.
Starting in the mid '70s it was pretty common to see 4 speed trannys that had 3rd gear as 1:1, and 4th gear as overdrive. Ford and Dodge both did this.
 
This is a very good transmission for a daily driver or cruise car/show car with a 250-6 cylinder engine or a 302 8 cylinder engine. And you will most likely get better gas mileage on the highway with this transmission, when compared to if you had a regular 4-speed (non-overdrive) toploader transmission or a C4 or C6 transmission.
 
 


Edited by dave302 - 28-August-2014 at 3:55PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-August-2014 at 11:34PM
If you were to consider this transmission for a racing application or a heavy duty street/strip application, i would say that the gear ratio is way too wide (and poorly spaced) to win races with.
These transmissions are a modified 4-speed toploader design, so you are not imagining that the thing looks a lot like a genuine Toploader. But it is not the preferred Toploader of choice of racers for winning races.
Maybe some of the other members can tell you more about it.



Edited by dave302 - 28-August-2014 at 3:46PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2014 at 12:14AM
Dave, Is there anything you can't do, or don't have extension knowledge of? You really are THE MAN.
JT, USAF Ret./Architect
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2014 at 12:30AM
Thank You, JT. I appreciate your kind words.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2014 at 1:45PM
The OD toploader has the small input shaft for small block applications. the big block toploader has the big input shaft. I do believe aftermarket makes a big block input shaft to fit the smallblock trans. Like Dave said I wouldn't race this trans....But I would love to see how much torque it could handle? Anybody try this already?
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2014 at 9:14PM
Originally posted by 75GranMan 75GranMan wrote:

The OD toploader has the small input shaft for small block applications. the big block toploader has the big input shaft. I do believe aftermarket makes a big block input shaft to fit the smallblock trans.
I do know that the input shaft that he will need is the 1-3/8" clutch spline input shaft.
Will he need the input shaft that has 23 teeth? Will he need the 2.78 ratio/wide ratio input shaft?
 
 
 


Edited by dave302 - 29-August-2014 at 12:43AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2014 at 9:18PM

Notice in the picture below, the input shaft on the left side is the small block input shaft and the input shaft on the right side is the big block input shaft.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2014 at 9:21PM
There should be an I.D. tag on the front of the transmission, like in the picture below.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2014 at 9:24PM
The "RUG" part number on the I.D. tag will tell exactly what is inside of the transmission, when ordering parts. 


Edited by dave302 - 28-August-2014 at 9:42PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2014 at 9:40PM
If the 23 tooth, 2.78 ratio/wide ratio input shaft is what he will need, and you want to see one for sale Click Here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-August-2014 at 2:27AM
I learned the hard way about Toploader 4 speed tags. Bought one that the owner swore was behind a 390. It had an FE bellhousing that went along with it, so I assumed he was right. After getting it home and deciphering the tag, it was a RUG E. That is a 1967 289/302 Mustang/Cougar Toploader. A strong transmission, to be sure, but not a BBF Toploader. Finally got rid of it for $400 with the proper 289/302 bellhousing. Lesson learned - always look at the tag and output shaft. Also make sure that the rivet holding the tag is a seriously strong round head (looks like 1/2 a BB) and not something else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-August-2014 at 10:47AM
the Overdrive Toploader is sometimes called 'the Imposter'
 
 
it may very well be exactly what you want, then again maybe not
 
just know what your getting into especially with the tail housing shifter mounting bosses
 
a big block with a flat torque curve & lots of it would be a good match for the wider ratios


Edited by Rockatansky - 29-August-2014 at 10:48AM
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foote500 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-August-2014 at 11:23AM
If it is an imposter top loader could not it be referred to as an "imploader"?


Edited by foote500 - 29-August-2014 at 11:23AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-August-2014 at 12:41PM
HahaHa, now that's funny! as Dave stated the tag will indicate what originally came with that particular case, but always double check because there is a possibility that someone altered the unit. count the teeth on all gears and shafts before orderding parts. I bet this OD toploader could be built to withstand some good torque, a strong trans with OD now that would be a win win.
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-August-2014 at 2:26PM
absolutely DON'T believe the tag
 
my trans internals don't match what the tag says it was when new
 
it's been a long time a lot's happened since then
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-August-2014 at 3:17AM
CRAP. I may have goofed up on the one I sold, then.

Question: 1979 Ford F150 3 speed plus OD, floor shift transmission. Is it worth keeping and what is it exactly?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2014 at 12:32AM
What is the casting number on the transmission? There should be other numbers and letters on it too. Please post it here. 
As the other members have said the "RUG" tag is probably useless, because many parts could have been changed in the past years. But what does the RUG tag say?
 
Some of these transmissions will have the name ORION with a circle around the orion name printed on them. And some of them might have the name TREMEC with a tremec part number on them.
 
Many of them were built by the Tremec company in Mexico.
 
The gear ratios on many of these transmissions are: 3.29 1st, 1.84 2nd, 1.00 3rd, .81 4th and 3.29 Rev. 
 
 
 
 


Edited by dave302 - 01-September-2014 at 12:45AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2014 at 12:34AM
Here is a picture of one of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2014 at 12:58AM
In 1977-1978 they had flipped the shift lever arm upside down, so when you shifted into 4th gear you were actually in the third gear place, it made it appear to be an overdrive transmission (which it is). you can actually take the gears from some of these cases and retrofit the early cases to make a trick overdrive setup.
But the .81 4th gear is very wide and might not fit some of the early cases. notice the bulge in the side of this transmission case from the .81 4th gear. 
 
These had a cast iron case. these were the start of the new tremec coding of 170F series.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2014 at 1:17AM
In passenger cars such as the mustang and capri from 1979-1993 the O.D. toploader four speed was offered with an alumnum case and a single rail shift mechanism. Coded the SROD for single rail overdrive.
Tremec coded this the T170FS. these gears are not interchangeable with the iron boxes because they changed the bore of the 3rd gear I.D. section. You can use the SROD cases and rails with an older style gearset and mainshaft, but you cannot get your old speedometer gears to line up in the right place.
 
Gear ratio #1: 3.29 1st, 1.84 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.81 4th and 3.29 Rev.
Gear ratio #2: 3:07 1st, 1.72 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.70 4th and 3.07 Rev.


Edited by dave302 - 01-September-2014 at 1:38AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2014 at 1:33AM
It is important to also know that truck versions of these transmissions exist and sometimes cannot be told apart by someone who is knowledgable. they use larger front and rear bearings and a large front bearing retainer.
They came in cast iron, the SROD alloy configuration and as a top cover shifted or tower shift design, mainly in four wheel drive broncos.
The jeep ratios were non overdrive and make great choices for custom ratio swaps in ford toploader applications requiring a low first gear. Jeeps were alloy tower shift style in four wheel and two wheel drive.
 
ratio #1 3.01 1st, 1.78 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.79 4th and 3.01 rev.
ratio #2 3.25 1st, 1.92 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.78 4th and 3.25 rev.
 
Jeep ratio #1 3.52 1st, 2.27 2nd 1.46 3rd, 1.00 4th and 3.52 rev.
jeep ratio #2 3.82        2.29       1.46        1.00       and 3.82 rev.
jeep ratio #3 3.01        2.08       1.47        1.00       and 3.01 rev.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2014 at 5:09AM
Hi Many Thanks when you ask a question on here you sure do get an answer The seller is on vacation but returns tomm I am going to get the remainder of the identifiers then  Thanks Again and Happy Labor Day  Conard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2014 at 12:35PM
Your welcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-September-2014 at 4:04PM
I looked for an OD toploader for my F100 with a 460. I never found one that was local, cheap, and rebuilt or trusted low mileage. 

I ended up going TKO500. 

FWIW, I wasn't worried about breaking it. I don't exactly do WOT 3-4 shifts. 

Paul
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