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Carl and Alex's Rally Car! |
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Regul8r 
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 Topic: Carl and Alex's Rally Car!Posted: 09-October-2014 at 1:48PM |
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So... Alex and I are working to help coordinate a Cross Country Road Rally Race that we will be running in next Fall. The details are VERY limited and being kept quiet to avoid any legality issues at the moment. Just know that we will be rockin' in a 72!! ALL FLAT BLACKED OUT!!!
We will be looking for parts and maybe some help from the GTS.ORG family to make it happen. With 5 cars in the field I am pretty sure I have the base car to use and much of what I need to put it together. But we GREATLY appreciate any help with parts you might have that we need. Looks like I am going to reincarnate Ol'Brown with her 302. Adding a 4bbl, the AOD, and the 2.50 rear I have from the Ranchero. that should get us some REALLY GOOD highway legs for good MPG. 1st Working to get the TBird done and sold now. Will be finished with paint this weekend and hopefully figure out the PS leak so I can get it to the For Sale lot on post in the next week or 2. 2nd Lola will be getting her new suspension, steering and brakes. Then it is time to build the frame I have on the wall as a rolling chassis to put a "stripped" body on. Will be doing some interesting ideas on it for a purpose built machine! Edited by Regul8r - 09-October-2014 at 4:03PM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Regul8r
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Posted: 09-October-2014 at 4:40PM |
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looking for input on the following decision...
BEST option for tire and rim size We are doing the same size on all 4 corners with 2 spares in the car. These tires have to be wide enough to grab the road/traction, good in rain conditions and hold up on high speed cornering as well as hitting dips, hills, potholes, railroad crossings, construction zones and any other road hazards. We have to think about what those road hazards will do to a 72 Gran Torino when we hit it at speeds above the normal limits! Think about hitting a bridge bump/dip, cross street or railroad crossing at 120mph and what the suspension is going to do and how that is going to affect the tire/rim in the wheel well? Would love 15x10x4.5"BS rims and 295/50/15 for the look, cornering and traction. BUT we all know these wide tires will float, hydroplane and slide VERY easily with any kind/amount of wetness on the pavement, will probably rub hard in high speed bump and cornering situations! Not to mention the space the spares will take up and the rolling resistance that will reduce MPG. We will also have a lot of extra weight in the car with Tools, parts, 2 Spares, Small Floor Jack along with at LEAST 1 additional plumbed fuel tank! (Planning on 2-3 Fuel tanks). SO, we are thinking 8" rim with 4" BS so it clears everything without ANY worry! The rims will be NASCAR/Race Square D type rims. Cheap and STRONG. A few tire options to ponder and weigh in on... BF Goodrich T/A Radial info... Tread Section Load Height / Width / Width / Capacity 255/70/15 29.1 9.1 10.2 2183 255/60/15 27.1 9.1 10.2 1885 245/60/15 26.6 8.6 9.8 1753 235/70/15 28 8.1 9.5 1896 235/60/15 26.1 8.1 9.5 1642 as a comparison... 295/50/15 26.7 10.4 12.2 2061 275/60/15 28 8.9 11 2149 We are thinking the 255/60 is a good compromise and well rounded tire. looking for opinions!! Edited by Regul8r - 09-October-2014 at 4:41PM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 09-October-2014 at 4:53PM |
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carl, i think that rim choice will be perfect, and i think the 255/60/15's will be your best choice for all the way around (all 4 tires)
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Grantorinosport351
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Posted: 09-October-2014 at 4:54PM |
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will this race be open to members??
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 09-October-2014 at 4:57PM |
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it's generally open to anyone who may have a "get out of jail free" card
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Grantorinosport351
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Posted: 09-October-2014 at 5:02PM |
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i could make my 72 into a rally car since its just a shell!
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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Grantorinosport351
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Posted: 09-October-2014 at 5:07PM |
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thats a bada$$ setup
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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Billy C
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Posted: 09-October-2014 at 6:05PM |
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Long distance endurance races are the sh**!!! Sounds like too much fun. Pick me up on your way through Pittsburgh.
 What's your competition? Is it going to be other mildly modified, mild mannered road cars? Where do you want to stack up with with the competition? As far as all the things you mentioned with the tires n' at, here is the input I can offer. Not sure if it's what you are looking for but here it is... I think a 15 with a big sidewall has too much flex for good street-able stability above 100mph. There are plenty of dirt-cheap steelies out there in the correct bolt pattern and offset in a much more performance friendly 17 or 18. Tires could easily be as wide as a 255 all around and have competitive grip in anything mother nature can dish out. If you are going to be staying on the road in above freezing temperatures, a cheap summer brand name tire would work fine. Tire pressures will be your best friend. Pump 'em way up for long straights where mpg is critical and let 'em down for any tight hill climbs or twisties. Tire pressures can even be helpful when balancing out the car's handling on the fly. Stock suspension can handle everything without failing catastrophically as long as the front bump stops aren't crushed (getting air). Everything needs to be tight though; every bolt, ball joint, bushing, tie rod.... A good front setup of caster, camber, and toe is a must for high speeds. Don't be afraid to dial in more caster than factory specs as long as it's the same on both sides. Another thing to take seriously is seating and restraints. Not only for safely but sitting for long distances. Dropping any weight possible from the car will be huge over a long distance. I'm OCD about weight so I don't want to venture too far down this road but you get the point. Also, AOD?? come on... gota be an easy way to get a T-5 in there.  I see 3 mpg right there... I know, it's harder than it sounds..The Torino with a tight 302 will last forever it you keep it in tip top shape. Sorry for the long post, hope it can help in some way. My stock of parts is small because I don't have anywhere to keep anything but I'll keep an eye out for anything you need. Good luck with the big adventure!!
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-Billy Conturo
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Grantorinosport351
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Posted: 09-October-2014 at 6:09PM |
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i want in lol
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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unlovedford
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 4:08AM |
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I agree 100% on not using the 15's. Step up to a 17 or 18, good sticky rubber, and good used alloy wheels to reduce unsprung weight. If you were running BAHA, I'd say use steelies instead for strength and damage resilience. Gotta work out the suspension bugs. Torinos do not handle well unloaded with stock parts - add a bunch of weight and...ouch. Go with good aftermarket parts, larger brakes, rear discs (cheap to install) and a good highway gear. If you are going with the AOD, you need to get some updates done to it, or it will fail. 5 Speed would be my choice for better control and longevity. Keep the nose and tail of the car down low, fabricate some belly pans, increase airflow into the radiator and pressure relief for the engine compartment. Get the best seats you can find, eliminate the rear seat, modify the fuel tank for a side fill (easier/faster to fill/no dumping precious fuel on the ground every hard launch).
If you really want to extract some added gains, flush seal the front and rear glass, tape all the hood/trunk openings, get a flat Gran Torino hood, tuck and roll both valences, keep the tires as flush to the exterior fenderwells as possible, add late model import door mirrors (better view/less wind resistance), shave all exterior mouldings, remove the HVAC system, remove all sound deadener and carpet. I have lots more ideas, as my days as a "Ricer" taught me a bunch. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 5:21AM |
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Crown Vic < 2002 17" Police / Taxi wheels
they're everywhere 2003 changes to high offset
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72 GT Ute
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antlerfiend
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 6:11AM |
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Carl, you are scaring me just a little with the 120 over railroad tracks.
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Alex
72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
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antlerfiend
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 6:41AM |
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We might want to send the car to Bennie to get a cage installed.
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Alex
72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
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Big Bird
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 10:40AM |
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+1 on a 'cage,
Firewall between the trunk and passengers, and NOTHING loose in driver's compartment. Assume you will crash, and plan for your survival... Now for the fun stuff: 17" alloy wheels (but tires will need SOME sidewall), better brakes, MUCH better seats/restraints.AOD? start with 88 or newer, or 4R70W with pressure oiling mod to tailshaft bearing + Baumann controller. Manual? T-5 or M5ODr2 from supercoupe. (Hydraulic clutch is a good idea) Get rid of excess weight, and really watch unsprung weight. Heavy wheels and high speeds over railroad tracks = no fun Full width rearview (Nascar style) Really fun stuff: James Bond style license plate changer Now get out there and have fun! Don't forget pictures  (or it didn't happen) |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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antlerfiend
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 10:45AM |
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Without pics, it never happened! I am a firm believer. I am buying a 4 speed set up. Maybe it will work with a 5 speed. Anyone have one, a 5 speed that is!
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Alex
72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
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Grantorinosport351
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 11:17AM |
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this is next year right?
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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Billy C
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 11:27AM |
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A cage is a tough road to go down. From what I've learned from my racing buddies, this seems to be the accepted progression of requirements. It's not my personal opinion..
5/6 pt harness requires a roll cage because if the ceiling crushes in, the head can't move out of the way like with the 3 pt belts. A cage requires a helmet because of the cracked-skull factor. A crappy roll cage is more dangerous than no cage because of the tube-steel spear-face factor. An affordable cage is a crappy cage. My opinion is 3pt harness, good seats, and don't turn up to 11.
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-Billy Conturo
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Regul8r
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 5:16PM |
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Thanks for the idea and info on the 17" police/taxi rims! 255/50/17 might be a great choice!
Yes, there will be bigger/ auxiliary fuel tanks/cells with easier fill points. Rear firewall added. My T-Bird SC buckets in the front. No rear seat unless I throw in another bucket for a 3rd driver/navigator. ALL new stock suspension and steering. Looking at the bigger Thunderbird front brakes. Rear is fine with the bigger Ranchero drum set up. Sway bars all around. The Moog CC rear springs I am running will do well with all the added weight, working out the front springs. Sway bars front and rear. Probably a just a 6point cage. Need the passenger seat able to recline for rest, so that will be interesting to do. Custom center console with cup holders and all the go fast commo goodies(CBs, Scanners etc...) Dash being reworked for all the aftermarket gages. Do NOT want to set this thing in the weeds! Need to bea respectable ride height so the car can travel without bottoming out on every rough patch of road. I like the simplicity of the AOD. There is a tranny guy on the SC site that works wonders and makes it lock up. Edited by Regul8r - 10-October-2014 at 5:19PM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Regul8r
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 5:24PM |
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As for the run itself... it is based on the Cannonball.
SMALL contingency of cars by invite and approval. We haven't worked out all the details yet. Alex and I have just been brought in on it and I am now getting heavily involved with the details and coordination. Having said that... it is a straight cross country run. No checkpoints, stops at events, visits to tracks etc... Cross country all out! So, where do we want to be as far as competition... we will be fine with what we bring, 302, 4bbl, AOD, highway gears, trac lock, stock type suspension brakes and steering. All the goodies being put in will be specific for a prolonged(30-40hr straight), high speed endurance run More info when I have it. Edited by Regul8r - 10-October-2014 at 5:29PM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 10-October-2014 at 8:29PM |
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i'd throw in some upgraded lights like these i'm putting in my car (i'm not sure how bright these are? but i can always add some silverstar ultras in them!) oh, and a brake light cutout switch!!! trust me on this
(better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it) |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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ilyes
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 12:27AM |
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All that sounds great, but don't forget pictures when you start the project, or as anyone else will tell you. It never happened.
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 2:52AM |
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I used to put hand-held spotlight sealed beams in the high beam pots
high watt bulbs need mechanical screw type connections & relays
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72 GT Ute
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72 RS 351
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 3:16AM |
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I had four Cibie lights in my old 72 GT, with a relay and four 100watt bulbs(2 55/100 and 2 100). Those were bright as hell, and I have them boxed up for my Ranchero.
Make the engine a 351W based combo, it cost no more really than a 302 based engine. Make it EFI if you have time to swap wiring in it from a Fox Mustang etc. An AOD can handle it if the guts are all swapped out from an AODE/4R70W, including the 98+ mechanical diode(2nd gear one way clutch). The 4R70W is the best solution for a strong trans, but those require full electronic control. Hunt online for the recent new record holder of the NY to CA run. It was a Mercedes and the article detailed a lot of what they modified on that car. Have fun and be safe. |
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 3:36AM |
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if at all possible I'd be looking for that extra 1/2" of stroke to turn a tall rear like that too
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72 GT Ute
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Billy C
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 4:31AM |
2005 CL55, which is no joke of a car in bone stock form And ya, great story and history there.
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-Billy Conturo
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dave302
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 5:03AM |
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To see the full article Click Here.
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Regul8r
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 5:47AM |
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yeah I read that article and another on other record holders.
Most of them were rich(er) people who put ALOT of thought and money into it. To include that guy with the Mercedes had scout cars in front of him. another actually had a spotter plane! It's a total buzzkill to know they had all that money spent on support like that. Totally against the spirit! Yup will definitely be running brighter lights and additional driving lights. Yes on the tail/brake light cut outs. also a dual snorkel type air cleaner being fed fresh air from out front(probably right behind the grill. was thinking the 351W too but REALLY want to run what we got, keeping costs WAY down! |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
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Regul8r
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 6:21AM |
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Having said all that...
Here is where the GTS.ORG Family comes into play... Tell Alex and I what you got that we might be able to use. This is stuff you would be willing to donate new stuff to the cause. suspension bushings/balljoint/bumpers steering components/hoses sway bar bushings/parts Larger Thunderbird rotors/caliper mounts/calipers(bearings/seals) brake pad/shoe parts and hardware(77 Ranchero GT 9" rear) lengths of battery cables(2 batteries with power buss bar for easy power access points) a pile of power relays and lit toggle switches (all the added lights/goodies will be relayed for safety and reliability) U-Joints Body mounts/Bolts aftermarket gages (thinking of going with a digital style speedo that can have the parameters input to compensate for the odd combination and still be accurate) dual snorkel air cleaner CB's, Police Scanners, Radar/Laser detectors and jammers Safety equipment (3 or 5 point harnesses) Sound deadening, Black carpet for a 2door non floor shift/hump car Anyone have a line on 6(six) of those 17" police/taxi rims 255/60/17 tires are 27.1" tall which is the same as the 255/60/15 so they would work GREAT We cannot ask about engine/tranny stuff yet as we are not set on that combo yet and won't be until it is all in our hands. Then we'll need all the engine stuff too! Tune up, gaskets, electrical components, high output alternator, HEI dizzy etc... Maybe someone has a good complete 351W hanging out they could donate to the cause, a 351W 4bbl intake etc... Right now I have everything I need to put a "running" car on the road I am going to look in to one of those "Go Fund Me Accounts" that way ANY friends, family and sponsors could drop a little money in it whenever they felt like helping out. Once all the parts and part #s have been identified I'll post a list. Will also post my address if any of you wants to sends parts or buy some and send them. Edited by Regul8r - 11-October-2014 at 9:52AM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
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Billy C
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 7:04AM |
I highly recommend a data logger from these guys. The speed is logged via GPS so super accurate. It's really easy to setup a digital dash on a tablet or smartphone for your speed and anything else you want to run into the data logger. It would probably cost you less than a few nice aftermarket gauges. Their support is great and since I am running one now I can also walk you through the setup. I went a little crazy with it but it could have been done just pulling sensor data and rpm from the stock harness.
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-Billy Conturo
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Zebra 3
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Posted: 11-October-2014 at 9:11AM |
Just a small dose of reality,here, ...I have been involved with emergency radio communications for over 30 years...I carry a F.C.C license ...some things to consider; C.B's.... very dependent on terrain, area of operations (city vs. wide open country) atmospheric conditions including Sun spot activity. Better choice would would be anything better than 11 meters (band in which C.B freq.s are located)...at best you are going to get a few miles of direct communication. C.B radio is a cultural waste land these days. Options: Any thing in the upper freq's ...Cell phone,or any other wireless communication ....laptops (depending on hot spots)... get a ham ticket (become a licensed ham radio operator) with that you can use repeaters that can increase your communication range as well as operate in those upper freq's. Police Scanners....A lot has happened in the last few years with police scanners...A lot of agencies are now encrypted ...meaning that the signal is garbled so that the bad guys can not listen in. Since this is cross country you would have to have every city, county and state police/ highway patrol jurisdiction that you would be traveling thru either programmed in or at least have the current freq's available to you(unless you happen to have one of the new Uniden units Radar/laser detectors ...this is not 1977 Bandit...by the time your "bird dog" starts "barking", "smokey" has got you....."bears in the air" are still used. The speed detecting equipment used now days can pin point target one vehicle in traffic verses what it was like back when. Jammers......very illegal ...considered to be obstructing justice....probably less of a crime to get caught transporting illegal drugs. If I had a boat load of money to blow, I would be in , but since I don't ,I'll be on the side lines cheering the rest on. Edited by Zebra 3 - 11-October-2014 at 11:28AM |
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"I deeply admire the men who founded this country, and I think we ought to know more about them and how they lived and the force and courage they had.
Henry Ford. 1926 Brian Conn '76 Torino |
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72 RS 351 wrote:
)....as an example here in Shawnee county the radio system was upgraded...new