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A little help please - power steering |
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Montego01 
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 Topic: A little help please - power steeringPosted: 18-October-2014 at 3:43AM |
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I was getting ready to go on my maiden voyage (around the industrial park), and I realize that my power steering is not working. Takes quite a bit to move the steering wheel
I tried moving it lock to lock a ton of times. Fluid is good. New pump New steering box New belt New hoses I have a 429 which has the power steering cooler on it. I don't see any way to get the hoses backwards Any ideas??? Does the system need purged? |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 4:27AM |
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Ford box or Saginaw, are you sure the pump is correct for the type of box you have?
have you cracked a line open on the return side to check for oil flow? does the pump seem like it's max'ing out pressure as if the wheel is being held at lock all the time? can you see any fluid movement in the reservoir?
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72 GT Ute
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Montego01
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 4:32AM |
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It's a Lares 841 box.
It's definitely getting pressure from the pump. I took the return line off and it's pumping. I checked that after I posted I haven't checked the movement in the reservoir. |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 5:38AM |
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the relief valve in the pump may be stuck open possible the pump is moving fluid but not making pressureI forget which way it is but one either the Ford or Saginaw systems run higher pressure than the other, but then there's the Saginaw pumps that came factory on Fords... they are calibrated to be correct for the box they matched to from assembly still though, I'd expect a 'low pressure' pump to still operate a 'high pressure' box somewhat?
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72 GT Ute
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aquartlow
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 10:45AM |
X2 with the relief valve being stuck open. The Saginaw pump usually has a higher psi rating, somewhere in the neighborhood of 200-350 psi more on average over a Ford pump. The funny thing is(as far as I know and/or found) Ford never put a Saginaw pump in a vehicle that had a Saginaw steering gear(go try to find a pressure line from a Sag pump to a Sag gearbox for a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury application). I tweaked the output pressure/volume of my Saginaw PS pump due to hydro-boost and the quick ratio steering gear.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Montego01
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 1:13PM |
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I put the same 'type' pump as I had before. I believe the Saginaw has the teardrop look. The pump I put on is the round type pump with the tube coming off the top (see pic)
I was thinking maybe the pump was not putting out enough pressure like you guys mentioned. I also have the power steering cooler which sits on top of the ac compressor. Does it take a stronger pump to pump the system with additional cooler?! I noticed when I rev the motor, the steering is slightly easier, but still hard to turn. Even with the front end off the ground using a jack, it's still fairly hard to turn. I did do a test to see if I can see movement through the pump with the cap off and really didn't see any but like I said, I did remove the return and did see some fluid move through Old and new  |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 1:22PM |
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that's the ford pump, saginaw pumps are like the gm ones thin and tear drop shaped, to the best of my knowledge
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 2:28PM |
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in the service manuals they're called Ford / Thompson
if you can down the little tube, seeing fluid movement isn't much of an indicator. if the relief valve is stuck open there'll be a lot of recirculation in that rather small can. if you do see fluid movement, about all it tells is that it's pulling fluid from the suction port into the pump and it's coming out somewhere Edited by Rockatansky - 18-October-2014 at 2:34PM |
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72 RS 351
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 3:15PM |
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I bought a Saginaw PS pump too when I swapped in the steering box. I bought it from a Ford van, that's all I heard might have them in the 70's. I don't know where that is though, it's another part I've misplaced.
 Are there reference specs for what pressure the different steering boxes need, as well as the hydro-boost systems? Hopefully the PS pumps can be adjusted some to better work with the PS box etc. Edited by 72 RS 351 - 18-October-2014 at 3:17PM |
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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GranTorinoSport
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 3:24PM |
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Do you still have the old pump? Do you have the tool to change out the pulleys on them?
If so, why not put the old pump back in (assuming it was working at least marginally when pulled) and see if you problem goes away. It's basically one of two parts - the gear or the pump (or the remote possibility you have a line blockage in one of the lines or the cooler if you have one). Ruling out the pump is an easy way to narrow the problem down.
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Scott Eklund
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 18-October-2014 at 3:57PM |
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^^^ scott's right. BTW you can get an o-ring kit (o-ring,seals and gaskets ) for that pump from carquest auto parts for $12 , i put a kit in my pump
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Montego01
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Posted: 19-October-2014 at 9:00AM |
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I still have the old pump. In fact, that was my next move. I do have the tool to swap out the pulleys again. I'll do that later this week.
If that is the problem, I'll rebuild like John mentioned. I also went into the shop and just bypassed the cooler, thinking that may have been or something like that. Didn't make a difference. Lines are new so I don't think they would be blocked. Thanks for all the help. |
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Montego01
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Posted: 19-October-2014 at 9:03AM |
Forgot to mention that is the old pump in the pic (the one on the left) |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 19-October-2014 at 9:27AM |
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that's what i was wondering, if somehow a piece of something got in the "system" and is restricting the flow (like an old piece of o-ring, or???) is the box new/ or was it on there before you swapped pumps? just trying to narrow down the culprit!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Montego01
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Posted: 19-October-2014 at 10:57PM |
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The box is a new Lares 841.
One of the steering hoses is new aftermarket. The other is NOS. The return hose from the cooler to the pump is new. The pump is a new Ford. The cooler that sits on the ac compressor was cleaned and repainted and seems to flow great (I bypassed this in my latest 'test' and it didn't help so it is not the cooler) So everything is new. It wouldn't be the fluid would it? I used the clear looking fluid. Power steering fluid. I forget the brand. Have to check that out when I get to the shop. |
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aquartlow
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Posted: 19-October-2014 at 11:33PM |
Years ago I believe Ford spec'd type F trans fluid to use in the PS system, that said, I now use either Autozone or Valvoline PS fluid (clear fluid) in my Saginaw PS pump and have had zero issues with pressure, flow or leakage. So I would have to say the fluid type isn't the reason for the issues you are experiencing. I hope your PS box isn't the culprit, dealing with that DS header to remove the box isn't fun
 . ToddEdited by aquartlow - 19-October-2014 at 11:36PM |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Montego01
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Posted: 20-October-2014 at 1:03AM |
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I just checked, I put in the Valvoline Power Steering fluid.
Of all things on building a car....the power steering with all new components....geeze |
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Montego01
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Posted: 20-October-2014 at 1:50AM |
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I had emailed Earl at Lares and he told me to call him this morning.
He think its the relief valve. It's flowing but not getting pressure. He said I need to jack up the front, unhook the coil wire, turn the car over, and move the steering wheel back and forth starting at about an 1" and adding an 1' each time. We'll see. |
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mcford
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Posted: 20-October-2014 at 5:37AM |
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When you swap the pump out, refill with type f. Ford pumps require the Type F. Also, if your original pump wasn't leaking, buy a seal kit and re-use it.
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Mike
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Montego01
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Posted: 20-October-2014 at 9:43AM |
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I'll do that. I don't like using the clear fluid. Can't see it lol
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Montego01
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Posted: 20-October-2014 at 9:50AM |
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By the way, I did what Earl at Lares told me to do to bleed the system and it still doesn't work. So I'll put the old pump on tomorrow.
Like Todd said....I do NOT want to change the box out!. So it better be the pump |
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aquartlow
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Posted: 20-October-2014 at 10:47AM |
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I agree with others that say the relief valve is stuck open, if the box had blockage I believe the pump would cause the engine to labor a bit like the steering wheel was held at full lock and the pump was at full assist(I realize your BBF will have no problem overcoming the load induced by the PS pump). It would also overheat the fluid fairly quickly. It sucks when everything is new and there is still a problem. Good luck and keep us posted. Todd
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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BadHabit351
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Posted: 21-October-2014 at 3:23AM |
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One comment that sticks out to me is you saying the wheel was tough to turn with the front wheels off the ground. You should be able to steer the car with one finger if no weight is on the tires.
If indeed that is the case, then pop you pittman arm loose and turn the wheel. If it's tough to turn, then I suspect the steering box. If not, then you have some joints that are binding.
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1973/72 Gran Torino Sport
1971 Torino GT convertilble 2013 Ford Fusion 2004 Ford SuperDuty 2013 Mustang GT |
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72GTS351CJ
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Posted: 21-October-2014 at 12:18PM |
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I'm waiting all day to know what happened. . . . . . .
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72GTS Clint Eastwood Special
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freechero
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Posted: 21-October-2014 at 2:32PM |
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I tried using the clear PS fluid, in both my 78 Ford trucks. BIG mistake! Even at summertime temps, I still had to sit idling for 5 minutes, before the wheels would turn. Below freezing, the truck would have to be at operating temp, before the wheels would move.
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Montego01
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Posted: 21-October-2014 at 11:27PM |
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Solved....the new pump was not pumping (just flowing). Installed my old one and worked like a champ. Easy one finger turning now.
Whew! Thanks for the all the responses and helping in solving this. |
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aquartlow
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Posted: 21-October-2014 at 11:51PM |
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Great news for sure, glad to hear it wasn't the steering gear and that you got it figured out. Where did you purchase the defective PS from?
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 22-October-2014 at 12:02AM |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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72GTS351CJ
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Posted: 22-October-2014 at 1:10AM |
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Glad it's sorted out!
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72GTS Clint Eastwood Special
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Montego01
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Posted: 22-October-2014 at 4:11AM |
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I bought the pump from PartsGeek back in July.
Even though they only take returns after 30 days, I told them I only have about a 100 feet on the pump lol They are taking it back... At least I didn't send my original in for a core. |
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Rockatansky wrote: