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    Posted: 19-August-2015 at 1:45PM
I'm just getting back to working on my gts after a 10 year hiatus. I've been doing alot of reading and now im concerned I made some mistakes back in the day.

So i had a 351m crate that i broke down to dress up. After some advice i ended up getting the cylinders bored out 90 over and having the heads shaved down to increase the compression ratio. at the time the machinist said Id be looking at about 9.5 to 1 ratio on compression and would need to run high end octane fuel. I don't know if those numbers were right or if it was a good move. Would I be better off starting over, or will it be ok?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2015 at 1:41PM
.090 over? I'd say that was definitely too much but I do mostly body and suspension work.
If that's the case a 400 is the same size as the 351M.


Edited by lynchster - 20-August-2015 at 1:41PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2015 at 1:53PM
Originally posted by lynchster lynchster wrote:

If that's the case a 400 is the same size as the 351M.
 
A 400 is not the same as a 351M.  A 351M shares many parts with a 400, but the 351M displaces 351 cid and has a 3.5" stroke.  The 400 displaces 402 cid and has a 4" stroke.  Further the 351M only used the poorer 1975+ heads with the restrictive exhaust port, while early 400's (1971-74) used 351C 2V heads.  People often think that the 351M/400 is one engine, but that is two separate engines (351M and 400).  Ford used this label on engines to describe the engine family (for 1975+), not the name.
 
Any  335 series engine block (351C, 400, 351M) is usuaully only good for a ,040" overbore from what I have heard.  I doubt it was .090" over.  Not only would the block not go that far, but there wouldn't be any pistons for that size.
 
It's a good idea to boost the compression, but there is really no good aftermarket pistons for a 351M.  Your best bet is to stroke it to 400, and get some decent pistons from Tmeyer Inc.  He's got the only decent pistons for the 400 Ford.  He's also pretty much "the expert" on Ford 400's.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swampbug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2015 at 2:33PM
All this machine work was done around 2004, so it was awhile ago. The only numbers i remember were 90 over and 9.5 to 1. The engine shop that did the modifications also provided the piston caps and valve set. I was young and dumb and though bigger is better, so i asked him to push it as far as it would go. He wasnt sure if there was enough meat on the cylinders but it worked out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2015 at 7:30AM
What car is this engine going into?  Was it originally a 351M? 
I don't think I'd keep that block if it was actually .090 over.  Like I said, .040 is usually the max for these blocks.  Plus, I don't know how accurate that 9.5:1 number would be considering how low compression the 351M was in stock form.  They'd have to shave a TON off the heads and I think it'd throw other things out because of the amount of material removed.  You might be best off to tear down the engine and do some measurements to see what you actually have. 
 
I still think though if you are going to stick with a 351M you should stroke it to 400.  There are no good aftermarket 351M pistons.  TMeyer sells decent pistons that will give you around 9.5:1 compression with stock heads and they also zero deck to help prevent detonation problems. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swampbug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2015 at 7:33AM
Original motor for my car/vin was a 400. I got it with the 351m which was actually a crate motor replacing the original right before I got it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swampbug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2015 at 7:50AM
From what ive heard, a 400 is not what I want, so I guess I could look for a 351c.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2015 at 9:51AM
Originally posted by swampbug swampbug wrote:

From what i've heard, a 400 is not what I want, so I guess I could look for a 351c.
 
 
the Ford 400 is probably the most versatile engine I can think of, capable of stellar all around performance in a truck, wagon or daily driver grocery getter
 
using 2V heads it'll make 400 hp stupid easy...
 
or it can be built to make totally insane power using 351C-4V heads
 
there was a puller truck Shazam that claimed 799 hp & 600+ is not uncommon from 400-4V builds
 
so what have you heard that makes you think a 400 is not right for you?
 
did someone tell you it's a boat anchor?
 


Edited by Rockatansky - 21-August-2015 at 9:55AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swampbug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2015 at 10:14AM
I have heard boat anchor, issues with detonation, etc. But I have also heard some decent things, your info being the most positive. I'm really not leaning anyway, since I don't have the knowledge or experience to do that. Mostly just going by others recommendations. I am looking into a 429 atm, but I don't know that I can swing it. I just know that I wont use the 351m i have for fear of thin walls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2015 at 10:46AM
the .090" overbore you stated is 99.100% probably not correct
 
FWIW all modern castings are of the 'thinwall' type, for some reason (chevy based ragazines) only ford gets the put-downs for ailments that afflict most / all manufacturers
 
also, if the motor has been sitting that long not pickled & sealed tight in stretch wrap plastic it should have the heads pulled off to ensure that the cylinders are in good condition with no rodent homes in them. at this time you can verify the oversize of the bores and either take the rest of the motor down & upgrade to 400 crank & pistons, or just be able to let a prospective buyer hand you (more) cash with confidence of what he's getting
 
the 351M came out at what had to be the worst time in history for an engine debut with the EPA pulling tetraethyl lead out of the fuel, it wasn't just the 351M doin the engine knock / run-on thang
 
they all were Cry
 
=========================
 
if you're interested, the biggest problem with the 351M & 400 is the top of piston to deck clearance, it could be that the .090" stuck in your mind is that figure?
 
so anyway the first step to fixing the Ford 400 is getting the pistons to the top of the deck @ TDC, Tim Meyer has his own personal line of pistons made by KB that address this issue http://www.tmeyerinc.com/category-s/1832.htm and not a bad price either
 
for many years in a row the Ford 400 was stompin 'em out at the Engine Masters Competition
 
basically the 400 is a 351C that's factory stroked to 400 inches in a tall deck block Clap


Edited by Rockatansky - 21-August-2015 at 10:47AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2015 at 12:52PM
Just like a 351W is a stroked, tall-deck 302.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2015 at 4:57PM
that's a good analogy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-August-2015 at 5:10PM
Originally posted by lynchster lynchster wrote:

If that's the case a 400 is the same size as the 351M.

Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

A 400 is not the same as a 351M. 

I only said it's the same size as it will fill the same space as the 351M.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-August-2015 at 5:40PM
they use the exact same cast code blocks & heads, aside from the factory V-cover sticker 
they're indistinguishable from the outside unless a 400 has the original heavy balancer on it Big smile
 
 


Edited by Rockatansky - 23-August-2015 at 5:45PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-August-2015 at 5:42PM
hey Swampbug, I forgot to ask if your block might have the dual bellhousing pattern on it?
 
 
missing distributor rib?
 
 
core plugs in the valley?
 
 
anybody ever seen a factory 400-4V intake (Rare is an understatement)
 
casting code, XE as in Experimental
 
 
EGR plate
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Rockatansky - 23-August-2015 at 5:57PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2015 at 6:04AM
Originally posted by lynchster lynchster wrote:

Originally posted by lynchster lynchster wrote:

If that's the case a 400 is the same size as the 351M.

Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

A 400 is not the same as a 351M. 

I only said it's the same size as it will fill the same space as the 351M.
 
I apologize Chuck, my mistake. I thought you were talking displacement not physical size.  There are lots of people who think the 351M/400 is one engine...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-August-2015 at 3:56PM
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