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Rag joint how to install?

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russosborne View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26-April-2016 at 1:16PM
I got the old one off.
Got the new one mocked up. But have a question. Oh, this is a Lares 203, got it with the new Lares 841 box. And yes, the supplied bolts are too short. They are also a bit small, there is slop when they are in the holes. Need to be longer and the next diameter up.
It's a question I have seen others ask, but I haven't seen an answer.
My old coupler had the safety piece bolted on.
The new one has smooth different sized studs for lack of a better word. I thought they were screwed in, but apparently not.
I was able to file out the holes on the safety piece so it would fit over the studs, but not well. And the safety piece has two same size holes, while the new coupler has 2 different sizes. I don't think it would stay on, much less be a safety item the way it is in the pictures below.

What are my options here? I really would like to use the safety piece as this is supposed to be a daily driver/fun car.

Pictures below.


Thanks,
Russ



Edited by russosborne - 26-April-2016 at 1:19PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 1:08AM
Russ you won't be able to use the safety bracket with that setup. I had to eliminate it too on my car. Those studs are rivets on the new rag joint. You'd have to remove then replace them with bolts and nuts if you want to use the bracket. It also looks like you need longer bolts to connect the rag joint to the intermediate shaft. Did you test the new rag joint to make sure it fits the steering box?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 7:41AM
Thanks.

Yes to the longer bolts. And also next size diameter, bit of slop in the holes. Hoping to get them today, have to check with my accountant (wife). End of the month is always tight financially.

No to the check fit with the box. I will do that, but it had better fit, both the coupler and box are Lares, and the coupler is the one they recommend for that box. At least that was the case back in December when I bought them.

I am not adverse to cutting off the rivets and using bolts so I could use the safety bracket, but unless someone else has done it and can give any advice I am not going to just start cutting. My luck I would ruin the coupler.

Russ


Edited by russosborne - 27-April-2016 at 7:42AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 9:51AM
Could you run a die over the studs and thread them?
How does the other side of the joint attach???
Something's not making sense here.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 11:32AM
Originally posted by russosborne russosborne wrote:

Thanks.

Yes to the longer bolts. And also next size diameter, bit of slop in the holes. Hoping to get them today, have to check with my accountant (wife). End of the month is always tight financially.

No to the check fit with the box. I will do that, but it had better fit, both the coupler and box are Lares, and the coupler is the one they recommend for that box. At least that was the case back in December when I bought them.

I am not adverse to cutting off the rivets and using bolts so I could use the safety bracket, but unless someone else has done it and can give any advice I am not going to just start cutting. My luck I would ruin the coupler.

Russ
 
Russ,
 
Have a look at my project blog to see how I was able to modify the Lares rag joint to work with the deadman bracket...
 
 
Look at my June 27, 2015 post (a little beyond halfway down the page).... and here's a view of the finished assembly....
 
 
Hope this helps!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 12:33PM
Thanks, Joe
Big help.
How did you get the rivets out of the Lares joint? Press them out or???
I have to reuse the Lares bracket from the 203 since I am going with a Lares box. It doesn't look like you did any damage to yours when you got it apart.
Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 12:35PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Could you run a die over the studs and thread them?
How does the other side of the joint attach???
Something's not making sense here.


Agreed it doesn't make much sense. Why use rivets here in the first place?
I doubt if I could thread the rivets (what I called the studs). The material probably isn't strong enough.
Hoping I can just remove them and use bolts. I'd feel safer with bolts regardless of if I can use the safety bracket or not.

Thanks,
Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 12:40PM
Oh, I just got back a bit ago from the hardware store. Got Grade 8 3/8ths inch diameter 2 inch long bolts with nylock nuts and some non grade 8 flat washers. The only Grade 8 flat washers they had were way too big. The 3/8ths diameter is just perfect for the Lares coupler holes. The holes come sleeved/bushed btw.

I wanted 1 and 3/4 inch long bolts, but the size jumped from 1.5 to 2 inch. A little long won't hurt, nothing for them to interfere with. (WRONG, see two posts down) 1.5 might have worked, but just barely if at all. I prefer some bolt sticking past the thread on the nut.

Russ


Edited by russosborne - 27-April-2016 at 3:23PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 2:07PM
Originally posted by russosborne russosborne wrote:

Thanks, Joe
Big help.
How did you get the rivets out of the Lares joint? Press them out or???


To answer my own question, these rivets are just pressed in and press out.
First time for me using my new HF 12ton press, and it took longer to figure out how to set everything than to press them out. I used one of the too short 5/16th bolts with the press. Worked perfect.Big smile
The rivets did go flying, so I recommend always wearing safety goggles and a face shield. I did.

This also does void the warranty. Oh, well.LOL

Thanks,
Russ


Edited by russosborne - 27-April-2016 at 3:24PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-April-2016 at 3:09PM
I will post pictures, but here is a couple of things I just learned.

2 inch long bolts are too long. Interferes with the safety bracket. 1.5 probably would be okay after tightening given that the rubber gives a bit.

3/8ths bolts interfere with the safety bracket also. Could be both, or maybe changing either variable would be enough. I had to hammer on both sides to bang them in enough so it would slide on.

I  had to use the 5/16th bolts that came with the coupler for the safety bracket. The rivet holes on the metal part that goes on the steering box are not large enough for the larger bolts, and I do not want to alter that piece at all.

I had to hammer the coupler onto the Lares box. So I may have to take the coupler apart to get everything back on the car. Would not be able to hammer it on once stuff is back on the car.
Being stubborn/stupid, I am going to try leaving it all together for the first attempt, as that would make things much simpler. I'm really hoping I can just slide the column piece back in place with everything together. We'll see. Wacko

Pictures





Thanks,
Russ


Edited by russosborne - 27-April-2016 at 3:21PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2016 at 9:29AM
Doing more looking at this, I may have to go back to 5/16th bolts all around. Right now I couldn't take the steering box part of the coupler off without also removing the safety bracket, as it hits the nuts. Although even that might not be enough room.
Keeping the safety bracket using everything else from Lares may not be the easiest way to go. Tempted to pull it off, but it is a "safety" item.
Wouldn't be an issue if I could easily get to all the nuts/bolts on the coupler when it is on the car. Couldn't really do that when I was trying to remove the old one so I am not sure. Might have to be able to though if I can't get everything back on in one piece-steering box to column shaft.

thanks,
Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2016 at 12:32PM
Crap. Not sure if that word is allowed, will find out.

I am going to have to pull the column. Tried getting the shaft that came out back in, but can't do it. Good news is the hole is big enough so I can leave the coupler attached when I put it back in.

Any hints on removing the column appreciated.

I had just taken the dash apart to see if I could get the dust boot back on, could only get the lower screw back in. Now I have to take it back off.

This is why I hate working on cars anymore. Something that seems simple ends up having to have lots of other stuff removed, and what should take an hour ends up taking a week.

Good thing I don't have to have it driveable right now.

Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2016 at 1:03PM
russ, to get the column out... remove the dash cluster and there are 4 nuts that hold the column to the main pedal bracket and unplug the ignition switch wires and the wires at the very bottom of the column (reverse/neutral safety switch) then you should be able to remove it out through the dash
 oh and the turn signal wire connector. you may need to rotate the whole column a little to clear the dash as you lift it out Wink
oops, almost forgot... if yours is a column shift, there's a small pin clip at the bottom of the column to get the cable off! but that's about it, not quite as confusing as it sounds!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2016 at 2:26PM
Thanks.
I can't find anything at the bottom of the column. Can't see it or reach it. Was hoping I could pull it partially out to make that end easier to get to. Just read in the factory manual that I have to remove or rotate the vibration braces that attach to the upper column bolts to make room. Going to go take some pain pills and give that a shot.

I used to think this stuff was fun. Now it is pure agony.

Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2016 at 2:57PM
Just checking, but when you are connecting the coupler to the steering box, did you remove the pinch bolt all the way, not just loosen it? If that's not the problem you could always reuse the metal splined portion of your old coupler if it goes on the steering box easily.

Edited by 72FordGTS - 28-April-2016 at 2:58PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2016 at 4:44PM
Yes, the bolt was all the way off.
Wouldn't reuse the old piece, I saw at least one serious crack in it.
Thanks,
Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-April-2016 at 6:06AM
FYI, I reused my original OEM splined steering shaft coupling bracket. Still a ways from install so I'm hoping it a smooth experience putting it all together..... I may try putting the rag joint assembly onto the steering box shaft to get a feel for what may be awaiting me!!! Wacko

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