evil windsor |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Posted: 20-October-2016 at 12:11AM |
I have rebuilt about 40 engines in my lifetime. Fords, chevys, a pontiac...I am not what I would consider a novice. I have been rebuilding my 351W that came out of a 74 Torino. It has given me fits since the beginning. It all started when it took forever to remove the cam bearings. None of the lifters would come out either. To remove the lifters, I had to tap them out from the bottom. When I started putting it back together, things did not get easier either. I put my new rings in and reinstalled the pistons. Tried to turn it to TDC, no movement! I had to use a cheater bar to get any kind of movement. Pulled the pistons back out. The rings were not touching ends while sitting the the cylinder holes, but they "spread" in their natural state. I reinstalled pistons usually LOTS of oil, rings were very tight to the walls. Got them in one by one, and would spin the engine after each one. Put my heads on, installed the pushrods, and when I was torquing to 18ft lbs I noticed some bolts acted like they were "bottoming out". I came back to it the next day after work and the picture tells of the scene I found. This engine is out to kill me.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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JT did you buy those at a "clearance"sale? were they "half off"
Edited by californiajohnny - 20-October-2016 at 2:35AM |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Thanks for the laugh, SA lol
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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mtburger
Senior Member Joined: 24-November-2008 Location: Abington, MA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Really stupid question, but is the valve seized in the guide?
Mike H. |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Nope, not at all.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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green 72
Member Joined: 27-April-2010 Location: Manchester,Iowa Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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these heads look like they are the adjustable valve train kind - non pedestal ones. They are adjusted similar to solids but are not torqued down like pedestal ones if that helps. looks like you just bottomed everything out and broke it.
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Dan 1972 GTS Formal
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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JT, do you need another stock rocker? I have all of mine from my car that i replaced!!!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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yes sir, just let me know what you want for it to include mailing.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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Free, just pay shipping how many do you want?
PM me your address JT |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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dave302
Senior Member Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
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If you are using the original equipment type of rocker arm studs, then those are called "Positive Stop" rocker arm studs. You install the pushrod, rocker arm and fulcrum and install the rocker stud nut and tighten the nut down until it touches the fulcrum shoulder. And then you tighten the nut to 17 to 23 foot pounds. This is supposed to be done at zero lift of the cam lobe, with the hydraulic lifter fully bled down.
If you have had the cylinder head to engine block mating surfaces milled/resurfaced and/or the engine block to cylinder head mating surface milled/resurfaced (Engine Deck Height). And/or if you have done a valve job and/or valve seat job this can all change the dimensions and geometry of the valvetrain. There are 0.60" undersized and 0.60" oversized pushrods available. There are custom made undersize and oversize pushrods available in different lengths. There are rocker arm shims available. There are also ways of measuring the rocker arm to valve lash.
Edited by dave302 - 22-October-2016 at 2:59AM |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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Or just get some 5/16 lock nuts so you set them at o lash without torquing them down at the bottom
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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the stud on the not broken rocker shows a LOT of threads above the nut, I'd be a little worried that they're all down too far, possible the broken rocker encountered retainer to guide interference as the reason for the break
when you remove the broken rocker play with the fulcrum ball on the stud, does it come to rest on a shoulder after the threads or does it slide all the way down the shank? what I do to determine lifter plunger preload is find the point of adjustment that the pushrod is at zero lash by spinning the pushrod in your fingers as you tighten the nut. there will be a change in the feeling of the spin in your fingers when all the lash is taken up. now accurately count how many turns after zero lash to your final setting whether it's non-adjustable to the bottom out & TQ point or whatever you choose as your adjustment, 1/4, 1/2. 3/4 turn whatever you use divide the number of threads per inch on the stud into 1 inch to find what distance 1 full turn is then find for the setting you used. if the nuts are 5/16-18 then 1 full turn moves the nut .0555" 1/2 turn is .0277" ... 3/4 turn is .0416" ... or you can put a dial indicator on the pushrod end of the rocker & eliminate the rocker ratio from the equation but the point is to make sure you're not bottoming the plunger or the nut at the end of the threads and crashing the retainers to the top of the valve guides
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72 GT Ute
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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on the bottom end rotational TQ, are you sure it's not the tightening of the rods that's causing the excessive force needed to turn the assy?
it should only need around 25# to turn / max 50#, are you sure you have the right bearings & rod caps not flipped around or swapped on different rods? I've seen multiple times professional mech's & engine builders getting wrong bearings, also heard of a dirt track racers trick to stamp the numbers wrong on purpose in case their engine got 'claimed' by another racer ... they'd never be able to get it back together & run it again w/o destroying it
I think you may have an adjustable rocker set up there?
Edited by Rockatansky - 22-October-2016 at 2:08PM |
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72 GT Ute
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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did you put in a new aftermarket/performance cam and lifters? if so are the slots in the bottom of the rockers long enough so not to bind at full lift?
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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Yup, gotta check that too. some factory parts don't allow much room for improvement before they reach their limits. unrelated example the 351M/400 can't take hardly any additional cam lift before the retainers crash the guides, around .480" lift is the limit, and that's not much over stock. what those engines need is a set of aftermarket retainers to gain clearance ... I see you have the factory valve rotators just like the 351M/400 uses, I wonder if you're having the same issue? I noticed it yesterday but it didn't click, see the marks on the top of the retainer where the 1/2 rocker is missing? just as bad as anything else the rockers can't contact the tops of the retainers or the keepers can come loose and the valve goes into the cylinder (that's bad) you may need a set of long slot or roller rockers and change the valve spring retainers. might as well swap out the 40 year old valve springs while you're there too. it doesn't have to break the bank, check out http://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spring-kit-sb-ford-w-393-tip-length-drop-in-fit-7-degree-hardware/ if that's the right kit for your engine, set these up at 1.810" and you should be golden
Edited by Rockatansky - 23-October-2016 at 4:10AM |
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72 GT Ute
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