Fuel issue overnight |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Posted: 25-October-2016 at 1:37PM |
The 460 in my '72 runs well, but every night the fuel disappears from the carb and fuel line (I think). Takes 6 to 8 periods of cranking to even get a sputter out of it. Once I get the sputter, usually 3 or 4 more cranks and it will fire off. No puddles underneath, no evidence of leaks anywhere, no serious gas smell. It is not flooding, just not getting fuel until the bowls fill. Any ideas?
I am going to get a new pump to see if there might be a small pinhole that could cause a pressure loss. If that makes no difference, I may be looking at a new carb. Current one is a Carter (Edelbrock), pump is only a few years old with maybe 10K miles. Suggestions would be appreciated. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14608 |
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sounds like the check valve inside the pump is leaking back, but you'd think the carb would still hold some gas in the float bowl, at least enough to fire up for a few seconds? by then the pump should catch up ???????
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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Joe,
You may want to try a phenolic spacer between the carb and intake, to reduce engine temp heat soak of carburetor. This heat soak could cause the fuel to boil within the bowl and basically evaporate. This same heat soak condition can cause a vapor lock type of issue within the fuel line supplying the carb and actually push the fuel back toward the fuel pump/tank. In addition to the spacer, an aluminum heat shield(something similar to this) could also be used between the carb/intake to keep engine temps away from the fuel bowls. The biggest contributor for this condition is the heated crossover passage in the manifold just below the carb. Good luck.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14608 |
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yes! todd has a good point there! i have plastic phenolic spacers on all my cars except one ...the vega and that one boils over bad after you shut it off and go to restart it a half hour or so later!!!
here's the ones i'm using: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-PORTED-PHENOLIC-CARBURETOR-SPACER-4BBL-FITS-HOLLEY-SB-CHEVY-FORD-SBC-BBC-BB-/180915455947?hash=item2a1f66c7cb:m:mTVzXowYeSIQyf94vLrulzQ&vxp=mtr |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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n2fordwagons
Senior Member Joined: 20-July-2013 Location: GA Status: Offline Points: 2252 |
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I've always had a similar issue with my wagon, since I bought it. Any time the engine is cold, it takes well more than 6 to 8 cycles of cranking before it will start. Following for suggestions...
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Jeff
71 Torino Brougham 72 Gran Torino Squire |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Oddly, this just started after we installed the cam setup. All the guys at the Moonshine Festival witnessed it firsthand. Without a seriously strong battery, there is no way this car would start in the mornings due to the extended periods of cranking. A high-torque starter is going on next to help it out and I'll install this starter on the Squire since it works well.
I will try the spacer, but space under the hood is at a premium. When I say that, I mean the case almost or does touch the bottom of the Sport hood - and I am using a drop case. I really want to rectify this, as I just love driving the car (even without a gas gauge/speedometer/tach, LOL). |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Whats the oil smell like? The 76 I had back on the eighties leaked into the crankcase. Good fun.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Is your fuel tank venting thru the charcoal canister correctly? I had plugged the canister hose with a bolt, and it would do this. Best guess was the fuel tank sucking air back thru carb and draining the bowl (Edelbrock 1406) and fuel line. Took the bolt out and fixed the hose to the canister, no more problems...so far.
While it was plugged, it would also "burp" and shut off the gas pump when fueling. Fixed the hose to stop that and the hard/dry start issue went away as a bonus. Edited by Big Bird - 26-October-2016 at 7:39AM |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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Joe, They do make these spacers in 1/2" sizes, just picked one up at the last swap meet I attended, may help with clearance issues. As far as starter, one for a '92-'96 F250/F350 with 460/automatic(preferably a new Motorcraft or a even a used one from a JY) is a great substitute. I use a JY one since my brand new DB Electrical seems "down a cylinder" in power compared to my old used '96 Motorcraft starter I sourced while JY "browsing".
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14608 |
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jeff, mine does that when it hasn't been started for a couple of weeks or more only when it's cold and hasn't been started for weeks.
joe: that link i posted above is for a 1/2" spacer!!! you can get taller one's though. like i said i've bought several of those from them, good quality, everything pictured included and the best price i've found too |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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John, I apologize for not clicking on the link you provided before I replied .
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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n2fordwagons
Senior Member Joined: 20-July-2013 Location: GA Status: Offline Points: 2252 |
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Hmmm. I'll have to pay more attention. I'm pretty sure mine does this every time the car is cold, whether it's the following day, a week later, or a month later.
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Jeff
71 Torino Brougham 72 Gran Torino Squire |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Todd, thanks for the spacer and starter info. John, you too.
I should make a video of it to show how it does. Pumping your foot madly does nothing, as there is just no fuel in the carb. Once 12 hours have passed, it cranks the same - whether a week, or just a night. It seems that once whatever fuel has "left", it does not get any worse. Will try all suggestions. Would the decreased vacuum as a result of the cam change make any difference? I need to install a canister to help with the brake booster, and just thought of that last night. Thanks again! |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Chuck, the oil is fine. No gas smell, no thinning.
Randy, this has the '78 Cougar tank and side fill. I will check the vent to see if it is open or even hooked up. Excellent ideas, all. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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fordpower
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2010 Location: willseyville,ny Status: Offline Points: 1766 |
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My car has been that way since I bought it 13yrs. ago.
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gnrlee01
Senior Member Joined: 04-August-2013 Location: iowa Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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this is the exact same problem i have with my 460. when youve let your engine run for a while and everything is up to temp, take your breather off and physically touch your carburetor. after running mine for a while, (longer than a half hour, or any real driving) my carburetor is so hot that it burns my fingers when i touch it...and of course i have to use starting fluid and a half a million turns on the starter, before i get fuel back up to the carb again because of this. this is why im asking everyone to keep an eye out for an aluminum intake manifold for my car, so that i can kill 2 birds with one stone...reducing the weight with the aluminum over the cast iron, and secondly so that when i go to do the swap, i can plug off that exhaust gas tunnel that is under the carburetor and eliminate this problem for good.
Edited by gnrlee01 - 27-October-2016 at 10:29AM |
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74 gts 460/auto with factory sunroof
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14608 |
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I've still got an eye out steve aluminum intake, block off the exhaust cross over, and a phenolic spacer should do the trick!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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gnrlee01
Senior Member Joined: 04-August-2013 Location: iowa Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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thanks john!! |
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74 gts 460/auto with factory sunroof
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Running a Weiand Stealth aluminum intake, semi R/A setup, open GTS scoops.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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I used this on my big block to remove/block heat from the underside of the intake and block the heat crossover, this and a phenolic carb spacer really helps with vapor lock/heat soak. Felpro MS96044
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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gnrlee01
Senior Member Joined: 04-August-2013 Location: iowa Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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how does the carb feel after letting it run for a while? is it normal, or hot to the touch? |
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74 gts 460/auto with factory sunroof
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