The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Model Specific Forum > 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Large brakes using 72 LTD spindles/brakes?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Large brakes using 72 LTD spindles/brakes?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
russosborne View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01-January-2015
Location: Glendale AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Large brakes using 72 LTD spindles/brakes?
    Posted: 25-October-2017 at 8:00PM
I heard about this somewhere else.
Supposedly you can swap the entire spindle with the larger LTD brakes (supposedly 11.7 inch like the Tbird) and keep the 5x4.5 bolt pattern.

I have my doubts since i haven't heard it here. I know nothing about LTDs at all, so I don't have a clue.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Russ
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2017 at 11:22PM
1972 LTD/Fullsize will bolt on, but use a different rotor/caliper (hard to find).
 
 
 
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
andrewok1 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02-June-2015
Location: OCALA FL
Status: Offline
Points: 424
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewok1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-October-2017 at 2:37AM
rockauto has all the parts needed for conversion  , rotors,bearings calipers,hardware ,still need brackets \

Edited by andrewok1 - 26-October-2017 at 2:46AM
GET IT GOT IT GONE !!!!!!!
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-October-2017 at 1:34PM
Be careful with the info in that article. Some of what they tell you is not entirely correct.
Also, the spindle you need for this swap is 72 Thunderbird, Mark IV, or intermediate. Some 73 intermediates MAY use the 72 spindle (Ford was using up parts stock), but Thunderbird, Mark IV, and Fullsize all went to 5x5 bolt pattern in 73 and got the big bearing spindle. (No confirmed small bearing 5x5 big car pattern rotors) 
If you use 67-71 Thunderbird/Mark III spindles, then rotors, bearings and calipers are specific to the spindle. There are a couple variations in caliper and caliper mounting (2 piston vs. 4 piston calipers, etc) but a complete spindle assembly will bolt up.
65-70 fullsize are usually drums in front, but may have optional disc brake systems which will bolt up.
in 70 or 71 fullsize got disc brakes standard, they are different from the later years, but a complete assembly will bolt up. These changed to the later "parts-bin" system for 73.
Looking at fullsize Lincoln, spindle assemblies from a full-frame Lincoln will bolt up, and they appear to go to the parts-bin system in 73 as well.
60s-era Unibody "Kennedy" Full size Lincolns MIGHT work as well, but not sure.
 
Any time you are using parts from immediately before/after a system change, check what you have very carefully. A lot of the changes were "running" changes like the intermediate spindle bearing size and a car made in one factory may use a big bearing, and one from a different factory may have the small bearing and a later production date.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
russosborne View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01-January-2015
Location: Glendale AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-October-2017 at 8:17PM
I've read that article a few dozen times.Big smile
I have a 72 so that isn't a concern.
Rock Auto no longer has the 72 Thunderbird rotors in stock, I've been on the contact me when they become available list for over a year. Kanter Auto Parts lists them, after I get the brackets I will follow up with them to see if they are really available. Calipers, pads, etc are stock Ranchero/Torino parts. I need to do new brakes anyway while it is all apart, so I want to do this upgrade now.

I posted the question about the LTD brakes just to see if anyone knew about it and had more details. The rotors are listed all over the place at half the price of the Thunderbird ones Kanter has, unless all those LTD listings are wrong. Shocked I'm wondering if the LTD spindles would work on my car, as there is mention of them not working with certain ball joints where I came across this swap.
Rock Auto lists several rebuilt calipers for the LTD. No brand new ones though. Around $50 including a core charge on all of them. So, again, they don't seem hard to find to me. Ermm

If the Thunderbird upgrade doesn't work out I will do more investigating. If I was really serious at this point with the LTD swap I'd be more concerned with the LTD spindle working correctly without adapting on the Ranchero before I started with all the brake stuff.  And making sure the LTD lug pattern is 5x4.5, as that is a must for me.
It just sort of concerns me that there isn't much mention of this swap, if it really worked well/easily I'd think it would be all over the place.

Thanks,
Russ
Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-October-2017 at 12:36AM
Originally posted by russosborne russosborne wrote:

I've read that article a few dozen times.Big smile
I have a 72 so that isn't a concern.
Rock Auto no longer has the 72 Thunderbird rotors in stock, I've been on the contact me when they become available list for over a year. Kanter Auto Parts lists them, after I get the brackets I will follow up with them to see if they are really available. Calipers, pads, etc are stock Ranchero/Torino parts. I need to do new brakes anyway while it is all apart, so I want to do this upgrade now.

I posted the question about the LTD brakes just to see if anyone knew about it and had more details. The rotors are listed all over the place at half the price of the Thunderbird ones Kanter has, unless all those LTD listings are wrong. Shocked I'm wondering if the LTD spindles would work on my car, as there is mention of them not working with certain ball joints where I came across this swap.
Rock Auto lists several rebuilt calipers for the LTD. No brand new ones though. Around $50 including a core charge on all of them. So, again, they don't seem hard to find to me. Ermm

If the Thunderbird upgrade doesn't work out I will do more investigating. If I was really serious at this point with the LTD swap I'd be more concerned with the LTD spindle working correctly without adapting on the Ranchero before I started with all the brake stuff.  And making sure the LTD lug pattern is 5x4.5, as that is a must for me.
It just sort of concerns me that there isn't much mention of this swap, if it really worked well/easily I'd think it would be all over the place.

Thanks,
Russ
I believe the swap isn't mentioned much is due to having to change more than one part and not just a rotor change. Those specific rotors were tough to find 4-5 years ago, since they were only available for 1-2 years of production(of course the actual numbers may vary). I believe the easiest way of getting larger front rotors on a 70's intermediate is just sourcing full size/Lincoln rotors and caliper mounting brackets then having the larger 5 on 5" BC rotors re-drilled for the intermediate bolt pattern 5 on 4.5" BC. This would leave the spindle as is without any fit-a-ment issues that could arise when swapping out to the LTD spindles and the Lincoln/full size rotors use the exact same wheel bearing numbers and the brake caliper as used on an intermediate. Just know doing the larger rotor requires 15" or larger wheels.
  There are other braking options "out there", I went this route seeing the decline in good quality replacement rotors and/or brake parts in general for our intermediates, it was also an upgrade in braking for me as well.
     
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-October-2017 at 12:39PM
To use the 70-72 LTD spindles, you may need to use the upper/lower control arms as well.
When I used to do the brake swaps in the early 80s, what we were doing was disc conversions on 65-68 Galaxies. Mostly junkyard parts, use the entire "Knee Assembly" (UCA, LCA, Spindle) Never tried strut rod swaps... too much trouble. Just snap 2 small bolts on top of each LCA and be done. I never realized they were splined, because we would break them and replace them when we installed the parts.
Torinos/Intermediates were the ones to find in the 'yards because we didn't have to screw with bolt patterns and there were TONS of 60k mile rotboxes in the 'yards at the time.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
papadeath View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 08-December-2011
Location: Eagle Rock, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote papadeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-March-2020 at 11:57AM
I wouldnt mind at all reopening this thread because I am def going to do this swap if everything is available without too much work. I feel I've done enough work in my life now it's time to stop (pun intended), and get this done. Has anyone thought of putting together a complete, bolt on package that includes everything? All the way to the control arms and ball joints if necessary. Whatever cheaply acquired,  working package I'm sure can be sold for somewhat of a premium. I dont mind spending a few more bucks for someone else to do the work. Lol. Anyone? The cost of everything, control arms and spindles need not be new, but all the stuff like brakes, calipers, pads, ball joints, etc should be. Oh yea, I'd like some drilled and slotted rotors, that should be an option!
75 Ranchero in progress
04 Harley Deuce stage one kit
89 Toyota pickup modded
09 Scion XB (bought for the ol' lady) buy American! (sorry)
skateboard
4 bicycles
1 scooter
2 dogs
2 stupid cats
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
GTS.org Admin

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5802
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-March-2020 at 10:57PM
You shouldn't need to swap the control arms, if you are going to a 1972 LTD setup.  The hard part will finding the spindles. From 1969-72 they should be the same for the full-size Fords.  The calipers and the rotors all look to be available in the aftermarket.  I don't think anyone has done the LTD brake swap that I know of.  Most have stuck to the newer style parts 1972-79 intermediate or 1973-79 fullsize).

We have some information on the brake and suspension parts here:


Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car

GTS.org Admin
Back to Top
mtburger View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24-November-2008
Location: Abington, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 355
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-March-2020 at 12:39AM
I have done this swap, I was able to get the 72 T-Bird rotors that fit the small bearing spindles for a total bolt on proposition.

If I were doing it again, I would do as has been mentioned and just get the bolt pattern re-drilled on the large rotors that fit your spindles.

What doesn't get mentioned very often about this swap, is that the pad and caliper are the same size as the smaller rotor, so you are increasing the swept area which helps with heat dissipation, but the breaking friction surface is still the same as previous.

There are gains to be had, but the actual braking performance improvement is probably very similar to just adding drilled, slotted, vented rotors and high quality ceramic pads to the stock spindles, as doing the swap to the increased rotor size.

Thanks, Mike H.
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-March-2020 at 8:40AM
72 LTD/Galaxie uses the weird offset rotors with a different hub diameter and different wheels.
They don't get the "Parts-Bin" system till 73.
Torino and Thunderbird/Mark IV got "Parts-Bin" brakes in 72, but had the odd year bearings/spindles.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
GTS.org Admin

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5802
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-March-2020 at 11:00PM
Like Randy said, the 1972 and earlier full-size stuff is different.  The rotors used on 1972 LTD was only used from 1970-72 on full-size Fords, Mark IIIs and T-birds.  The calipers are also unique to 1968-72 Full-size cars.  I don't know of anyone using the 1972 and older brake setup on a Torino, most have used the newer style stuff.

The 1972-79 Mid-size and 1973-78 Full size use the same caliper.  After late 1973, these cars all used the same large bearings, but the full-size cars (and Thunderbirds, Marks) from this time used the larger 12" rotors with the 5 x 5" bolt pattern.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car

GTS.org Admin
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 2765
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2023 at 8:59AM
Bringing this back up, which scarce rotors was it that can be used on the small bearing intermediates, with the bigger bracket?

I noticed Mac's and Eckles lists a 1972 Thunderbird rotor now, I got an email. They call it a DOAZ-1102-A legacy part number, I don't recall seeing that one before. It's by Centric, and $53 etc.

Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
GTS.org Admin

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5802
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2023 at 9:35AM
Don, those are an incorrect listing.  They are only for 1970-71 T-Birds.  1972 T-Brids used a different one-year only rotor, also shared with Police Torinos. 

The part number is:  D2SZ 1102-A

Those rotors Macs lists are the fullsize type rotors that won't work with Torino spindles.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car

GTS.org Admin
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 2765
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2023 at 11:24AM
Thanks, I thought they may be the 72 police version of the Gran Torino. They show it with a 5x4.5" bolt pattern, but it would be the 5" size for police models.

I have 73 spindles on one of mine, and I think a 71 spindle pair on the other, Lincoln of some kind. I purposely got those with the bigger rotors, and used slot mags since they had the oval bolt pattern holes. So I can't use those much longer, if they could be used with a 5x4.5" rotor I might keep them.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6059
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2023 at 8:44AM
the 72 T-bird and Police Torino use a 5-4.5" wheel stud pattern
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 2765
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2023 at 10:16AM
Okay, so the 72 Thunderbird front rotor is the one we wished was available. I keep forgetting that for sure, and go back to the other reference thread to verify them.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
GTS.org Admin

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5802
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2023 at 12:04PM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

Okay, so the 72 Thunderbird front rotor is the one we wished was available. I keep forgetting that for sure, and go back to the other reference thread to verify them.


You got it!  It was a one year only rotor, only used on 1972 T-Brids, 1972 Mark IVs, and 1972 Torino/Montegos with the police package. That is a small group of cars, which is why it's probably an obsolete part. It used the small 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern while for 1973 and later these same cars used the same sized rotor but with the 5x5" bolt pattern.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car

GTS.org Admin
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6059
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2023 at 2:27PM
possible work-around is to redrill the 5-5" rotors to 5-4.5 and use 1974+ spindles for compatibility with the bearings & races that come in the 5-5" rotors.

i don't know yet if the big 1974 rotors will accept the 1972 races? IIRC it's the outer that's different and the inner is the same
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 2765
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2023 at 2:31PM
I hope I can get to my 73 when I sort out the carb and get to looking at the brakes later this year. The other brake options are more involved of course, but any would be a good step forward. I'd like to see a spindle that could accept a 1998 or newer Crown Vic hub, and the rotor etc.

Even if it meant making a caliper bracket, if that was the major custom step, I'd be up for that. I had to do that from scratch for my 98 Mountaineer, there are no brake upgrades available, I did it with a custom rotor hat, and the bracket.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2023 at 11:40PM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

I hope I can get to my 73 when I sort out the carb and get to looking at the brakes later this year. The other brake options are more involved of course, but any would be a good step forward. I'd like to see a spindle that could accept a 1998 or newer Crown Vic hub, and the rotor etc.

Even if it meant making a caliper bracket, if that was the major custom step, I'd be up for that. I had to do that from scratch for my 98 Mountaineer, there are no brake upgrades available, I did it with a custom rotor hat, and the bracket.
 
Did something similar to what you described on my Ranchero, uses 2000 CV rotors and calipers front and rear, fabricated my own front caliper to spindle brackets. Cut the brake discs off a set of replacement Ranchero rotors to repurpose the hubs for the slip-fit CV rotors. No modifications were done to original spindle, so it could be returned to stock form or compromise it's integrity. Hope this is helpful.
 
 
 
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 2765
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2023 at 1:38AM
Thanks again for those pictures and the idea. I have seen that before, and that's a viable option to keep the stock spindle and BJ's etc.

One question there, how did that affect the wheel track, the hub location and thus wheel offset? The old rotor(hub) has the original hub surface(wheel track), but the CV rotor has a different offset of the disc which will place it inboard or outward, some amount.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2023 at 4:40AM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

Thanks again for those pictures and the idea. I have seen that before, and that's a viable option to keep the stock spindle and BJ's etc.

One question there, how did that affect the wheel track, the hub location and thus wheel offset? The old rotor(hub) has the original hub surface(wheel track), but the CV rotor has a different offset of the disc which will place it inboard or outward, some amount.
 
Doing the above moved the overall wheel track about 5/8" wider (5/16"on each side), basically the thickness of the CV rotor "hat" since the CV rotor fits flat against the original Ranchero's "hub". I use 20" x 8.5" wheels all around so going with the larger rotors wasn't a concern with the wheels hitting the calipers. The offset of the CV rotor and/or caliper placement was also a non-issue(although careful measurements were required), for it does not hit the sheet metal dust shield or any of the suspension, steering linkage.   
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.184 seconds.