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Electrical setup advice on rebuilt Cleveland

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrlcommish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Electrical setup advice on rebuilt Cleveland
    Posted: 18-February-2018 at 11:30AM
Hi all,

Just had my 351C rebuilt.  It was a stock 2V and I am upgrading to 4V.   Cylinders are bored out, higher compression pistons, lumpier cam, etc.  So I need to choose all new electrical.  There are a dizzying array of distributors, plugs/wires, coils, etc.  I am overwhelmed at the choices.  I had a Pertonix Ignitor in the old 2V setup and performed well with no issues for many thousands of miles.  So I am somewhat partial to them, though certainly not married.  What does everyone recommend as far as choosing what setup setup to use?  What all components do I need and should I stick with one brand?  Or better to mix and match?  Any and all advice welcome, I'm very open-minded here, and have much to learn!  Thanks!
1972 Gran Torino Sport Fastback, Bored 30-over 351C - 4V, Lt Blue, Pertronix Ignitor, dual exhaust with Turbo mufflers, otherwise stock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2018 at 1:11PM
any reason to not re-use the Pertronix?

seems like it'd be a nobrainer since the car is wired and you know it works
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrlcommish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2018 at 1:22PM
I would think I'd want to upgrade/replace my old distributor, coil, plugs, wires, etc...no?  I wouldn't want to re-use that stuff, it's many years old and has many miles on it.  Plus the engine has received a significant horsepower upgrade.  Not sure if that matters, I would think it does.
1972 Gran Torino Sport Fastback, Bored 30-over 351C - 4V, Lt Blue, Pertronix Ignitor, dual exhaust with Turbo mufflers, otherwise stock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2018 at 1:44PM
I had my 351c built to a 393 ...As per the engine builder he recommended msd 6a box with 8577 msd distributor 4 years past and still very happy. -Rick-

Edited by 72GTS351CJ - 19-February-2018 at 3:39AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7T9_Tbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2018 at 1:47AM
I have a MSD distributor and 6AL box, Very happy with it.  I've also run the DUI setup on My 351W, don't know if they have them for the 351C, but they work well also, and very easy to hook up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2018 at 6:52AM
You can run a MSD box with a pertronix if you wanted to, and reused your old distributor.  Just check the bushings for free play.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2018 at 9:34AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

   Just check the bushings for free play.


i'd worry more about the location of the gear on the shaft and the required free play for it

1 major reason i'd stick with a known good / working piece that you already own is because the aftermarket can't get the gear on the shaft in the right place and new out of the box distributors are chewing new cam gears faster than Censored

FWIW i don't know how much more upgraded you're gonna get?

unless you go to a multi coil on plug type ignition ... i'd keep it simple

one consideration is can you get parts at Walmart?  goal for stock Duraspark

whatever you decide on, check for oil clearance / free play travel between the bottom of the dizzy gear and the block ledge before you install the timing set. the dizzy hold down bolt needs to be snugged tight as it would be while driving or the O ring will hold the dizzy up and fake clearance

i just remembered Tim Meyer / Trackboss products is working on a stock appearing dizzy that uses a GM module inside, again goal for availability anywhere.

can also be used with a multi spark box


Edited by Rockatansky - 19-February-2018 at 9:40AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2018 at 10:58AM
Some of the replacement Duraspark boxes actually have a G.M. HEI module inside instead of the Fork guts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2018 at 11:33AM
and some offshore spark boxes are multi-nothing but a GM module inside



probably a defective one at that Cry




Edited by Rockatansky - 19-February-2018 at 11:34AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2018 at 11:43AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2018 at 1:12PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

only place i could find info


https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1442117-track-boss-ready-to-run-duraspark-distributor.html
 
This is what I want for my car.  However, Tim hasn't given me a clear answer on when or if they will be ready any time soon.  If one is ready by the end of my build, I am going to get one.  The GM HEI modules are a dime a dozen, and cheap enough to carry spares.
 
Otherwise, I am probably going to go with a home made Duraspark HEI setup like Todd did on his car. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2018 at 2:02PM
it does seem like the dizzy is on the back burner, minimum. Tim's web page is scrubbed of public access to any of the posts about it and my post in the 335 section goes to his 'private' message

but yeah the quality GM modules last a darn long time too! for my hundreds of $ personally i don't need a family keepsake dizzy housing, a factory housing can be polished up pretty spiffy and sealed in clear FTW

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/217131-well-i-did-the-gm-module-duraspark-ii-distributor-tfi-coil-conversion-long-post.html


Edited by Rockatansky - 19-February-2018 at 2:04PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7T9_Tbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2018 at 4:31AM
Since your leaning towards the GM HEI, here's the one I run on my '79 t-bird, but for the 351c;


They're great setups, mine works with the factory tach, and they're just about drop-in.  I incorrectly called mine the DUI setup, which is WAY more expensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2018 at 11:20AM
pretty sure it depends which tach 2 or 3 wire if the tach will work
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2018 at 12:14PM
I'm told the pertronix is a good set up and easy to work with. I eventually settled on a modified Duraspark distributor but I'm not running a 400-500 horsepower car either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2018 at 12:15PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:


Some of the replacement Duraspark boxes actually have a G.M. HEI module inside instead of the Fork guts.


I was thinking about gutting a Duraspark box and going that route.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7T9_Tbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2018 at 5:44AM
Is the '79 two or three wire?  I just remember hooking the tach lead under the hood to the tach terminal on the cap and it worked, and was accurate! ClapThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2018 at 7:46AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

only place i could find info


https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1442117-track-boss-ready-to-run-duraspark-distributor.html
 
This is what I want for my car.  However, Tim hasn't given me a clear answer on when or if they will be ready any time soon.  If one is ready by the end of my build, I am going to get one.  The GM HEI modules are a dime a dozen, and cheap enough to carry spares.
 
Otherwise, I am probably going to go with a home made Duraspark HEI setup like Todd did on his car. 
 
Vince, if you go that route(been extremely happy with mine so far), get the 5-pin HEI module from an '80 Oldsmobile Toronado w/307,  Standard Motor Products part#LX330. Works just like the 4-pin but with the 5-pin if you send a ground signal to that 5th pin it will retard the ignition timing 5 crankshaft degrees for as long as the ground signal is present. Makes for much easier starting even with 18-20 degrees of initial timing.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2018 at 7:48AM
Originally posted by 7T9_Tbird 7T9_Tbird wrote:

Is the '79 two or three wire?  I just remember hooking the tach lead under the hood to the tach terminal on the cap and it worked, and was accurate! ClapThumbs Up
 
The '77-'79 tachs are 3 wire.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2018 at 7:51AM
Originally posted by lynchster lynchster wrote:

Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:


Some of the replacement Duraspark boxes actually have a G.M. HEI module inside instead of the Fork guts.


I was thinking about gutting a Duraspark box and going that route.
 
I totally agree with using the GM module(and I H8 GM), much easier to find and the aftermarket pieces are generally more reliable for the HEI modules than the Duraspark boxes, at least in the "Blue" strain relief versions of a DS box.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2018 at 7:56AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Vince, if you go that route(been extremely happy with mine so far), get the 5-pin HEI module from an '80 Oldsmobile Toronado w/307,  Standard Motor Products part#LX330. Works just like the 4-pin but with the 5-pin if you send a ground signal to that 5th pin it will retard the ignition timing 5 crankshaft degrees for as long as the ground signal is present. Makes for much easier starting even with 18-20 degrees of initial timing.


that 5th pin could come in handy, Regular / Ethyl and emissions test lane mode LOL

it's the earlier 2 wire tach that doesn't like mess'n, it'll affect the OP's 72 that's why i brought it up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2018 at 9:41AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

 
Vince, if you go that route(been extremely happy with mine so far), get the 5-pin HEI module from an '80 Oldsmobile Toronado w/307,  Standard Motor Products part#LX330. Works just like the 4-pin but with the 5-pin if you send a ground signal to that 5th pin it will retard the ignition timing 5 crankshaft degrees for as long as the ground signal is present. Makes for much easier starting even with 18-20 degrees of initial timing.
 
Thanks Todd.  I remember we did a big ignition post a while ago where you went over all the details on your setup.  My engine had a pertronix but I wanted to upgrade it to something with a cheaper and more reliable module while keeping it relatively stock (or at least Ford) looking.
 
Here is the thread for the OP, which has lots of great info:
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-February-2018 at 3:22PM
@ the OP,
I recommend taking whatever you had that worked before and just get the new setup running reliably enough to putt around. New plugs and wires of course. When you're ready to dial it in see what they have as far as interchangeable tuning parts for your current distributor. You can get really crazy with the tuning (dyno, tuner, the works) or get it to a comfortable spot (highway pulls, trying different stuff, seeing what makes the bigger smile). Either way, you will find out if what you had before doesn't have the guts to run the higher power setup.


Edited by Billy C - 28-February-2018 at 3:25PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rrlcommish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-March-2018 at 10:43AM
Billy C.,

Thanks for the advice, I think that is how I will proceed.  Hopefully the PS pump and alternator are still in working condition, they've been sitting for a few years while I have been finishing the other parts of this project (motor, body).  Probably should replace all hoses and belts regardless.  Hoping radiator is ok as well, at least as you say, to get 'er running again.  It was working fine when parked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-March-2018 at 3:02PM
My thoughts...good quality duraspark unit from Davis Unified Ignition, and the hotter duraspark box, forget the specifics but just google it. Duraspark can support around 600hp.
I'm running a 1978 400 duraspark in my 1971 351c 2v in my gts. 
Spliced in wiring harness off one of my 351W 1976 Elite duraspark harnesses mated into the 1972 harness. Engine harness is partial rebuilt using an NOS 1974 LTD 400 harness I got off eBay. 

Otherwise I'd lean towards old school Mallory...but they got bought out by MSD if I recall 1-2 years ago.

I drive my GTS so I stick to knowing I can get duraspark parts within about any town I hit up.
Be it near home or on Hot Rod Powertour or where ever.

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