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Convince me that redrilling brake rotors is safe

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russosborne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Convince me that redrilling brake rotors is safe
    Posted: 17-March-2018 at 9:50PM
I'm getting close to doing the 12 inch front disk swap.

Seems that the 72 Tbird rotors are not available or if so they are running about $200 each or more. If available. Everything I find online says Call for Availability. I'm not so good at calling. Embarrassed

Thanks to California Johhny I now have a pair of the 74 and up spindles. So I can use the much cheaper and available 12 inch rotors that come with the 5x5 lug pattern. I already have the caliper mounting brackets, just a matter of deciding which rotor to use.

I've seen lots of people talking about just redrilling them like it is no big deal. It seems like a big deal to me. I've heard of machine shops not wanting to redrill rear axles from a 4 lug to a 5 lug pattern and am thinking why not, and does that apply to this as well? Not to mention that it would void any warranty on the rotors themselves. LOL

Looking at going one way or the other in the next couple of weeks so I need to make a decision (something I am not so good at when I don't know much, like in this case). At this point I have to buy new rotors even if I wanted to keep the smaller size. So I might as well go ahead and get the size I want. So what if I am compensating? Tongue

Also, if anyone in the Metro Phoenix, AZ area knows of a machine shop that does this please let me know. And will I need to take them one of the old rotors for a pattern?

Thanks,
Russ


Edited by russosborne - 17-March-2018 at 9:51PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 12:45AM
Don't go by what you heard, talk to the actual folks at the machine shop and see if they will do the service, you are going to have to do some "legwork" yourself to get what YOU want. The other alternatives are paying for the more expensive 72 LTD/T-bird rotors(which by the time you pay for the 5 on 5 rotors and have them drilled is probably more expensive than just purchasing the 72 rotors), get a high dollar big brake retro-fit(Wilwood or Baer) or build your own. This is the exact reason I modded my brake system to allow "slip fit" late model Crown Vic rotors/calipers, easily found at any parts store and they were an upgrade in size(10.79" vs 12.44"), but this required a bit of fab work on my part.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 4:52AM
Hello.

I have had several sets of large flange F150 28 & 31 spline axles bolt patterns re-drilled from 5 on 5, to 5 on 4.5.

The machine shop I used here in MA was just a regular engine shop, Coughlan Machine.

They welded the old holes first, machined down the diameter to fit in my hat (I provided), face cut the flange to true it after welding, and re-drilled the small Ford bolt pattern for $60.00 / set.

They have also re-drilled several sets of Full Size Ford rotors to the small Ford bolt patter for my brothers Late Model Sportsman asphalt car, before he switched to the Panther platform.

It is an easy fix, once you find a decent machine shop.

If you have to, you can send them to Moser.

Link and web site content attached below.

http://www.moserengineering.com/shop-services/

REDRILLING BOLT PATTERNS

Axles-redrilling only (Add $25 to plug original holes)........................... $65

Rear drums or rotors........................................................................... $65

Front Discs or Hubs............................................................................. $90

Redrilling only (*add $10 for counterbore if necessary)........................ $65

Plug & redrill (OEM Axles or Rear Rotors)............................................ $90

4 lug rotors, plugged & redrilled to 5 lug (Includes 1/2” rotor studs)..... $90

6 lug front rotors plugged & redrilled to 5 lug........................................ $90



Edited by mtburger - 18-March-2018 at 4:57AM
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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 5:56AM
yes it's totally safe ! redrilling 5 to5 lug can be redrilled in between the stud holes since it the same amount of holes Wink unlike going from 4 lug to 5 which i did on my monza axles which btw i had moser do them they welded in the holes and redrilled them they did top notch work Big smile
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
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77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 8:33AM

the 1972, 5-4.5" 10.72" 6026 rotor Overall Height is 4.829"
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=391058&cc=1141298&jsn=800

1973 still calls out 6026

1974 calls out 6038, all given specs are the same as 6026 is the only difference the one bearing race?
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=391062&cc=1141423&jsn=1038

1974 Police calls out 6040, 11.8" dia 5-5" pattern
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=391062&cc=1141423&jsn=1038

i'm gonna say this is the rotor to redrill to 5-4.5" ... anybody?









Edited by Rockatansky - 19-March-2018 at 5:27AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 9:11AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

what's the chance of turning old rotors into hubs and finding a catalog slip fit hat rotor that will work with the factory large caliper bracket?



I've got a set already done, and up for sale. You use these with CVPI 12" rotors and calipers. All you need to do is make the caliper mount. 

There are a few threads here on the forum detailing the swap. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 9:25AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

what's the chance of turning old rotors into hubs and finding a catalog slip fit hat rotor that will work with the factory large caliper bracket?



On a one piece rotor, I would think the chances are pretty slim on being able to get it to work without making, or modifying a bracket.

You would need to whittle them down to the hat size you are using, mock it all together, then see where the rotor is in regards to your caliper bracket.

Mike H.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 9:44AM
i don't know why i brought it up, i think i've already been to the conclusion that i'm not in for a total
custom project but diameter upgrade with factory parts sounds like a winner for now

6040 rotors redrilled, large caliper brackets on 'late' spindles FTW ?




Edited by Rockatansky - 18-March-2018 at 9:44AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 2:22PM
Power Surge said

I've got a set already done, and up for sale. You use these with CVPI 12" rotors and calipers. All you need to do is make the caliper mount. 

There are a few threads here on the forum detailing the swap. 


Besides having to make the brackets, which is beyond my ability,
don't these require 16inch or larger wheels? I am extremely happy with my aftermarket 15's, no plan/budget for changing those.

Thanks,

Russ






Edited by russosborne - 18-March-2018 at 2:32PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-March-2018 at 2:29PM
Ok, might be worth doing the redrill.
Kanter lists the 72 Tbird rotors, at $225 apiece. I don't know how their quality is for a daily driver driven hard.

I wish I could do the turning the old rotors into hubs thing, but again that is something that I couldn't do the machine work for. Between that and making the caliper brackets it just isn't  going to happen.
I'm ok making some stuff adapt to work, but not brakes.

Thanks,
Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2018 at 12:42PM
Re-drill 15 years ago here was maybe $30 a rotor. A friend had it done after we swapped his 65 or 66 Galaxie to front discs. We took everything from a fullsize 75ish Ford and didn't think about the bolt pattern until later. Rotors were drilled between the old holes and I think a small area got spot-faced to make a level seat for the stud heads. I don't remember if the old holes got plugged.
Other possibility is to swap rear axle shafts and drums for 5x5. 73-76 Thunderbird is a direct swap, as is any 73-76 NON-Disc Mark IV.
Rockatansky, any 74-78 fullsize rotor will be good for re-drill.


Edited by Big Bird - 21-March-2018 at 12:44PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2018 at 2:33PM
are you set on a particular set of wheels?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2018 at 8:05PM
yeah, I plan on keeping what I have on it now. They weren't what I really wanted, but they have grown on me.
Plus they came on the car, so one less thing to have to spend money on.
thanks,
Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2018 at 6:40AM
*sliding into this conversation*
*Raising hand*

It's not hard to machine a factory rotor into a hub. Did it around oh, 10 years ago.







Then making the bracket: 






Adapter to go from stock ford to braided AN brake line:




Edited by Eliteman76 - 23-March-2018 at 6:42AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2018 at 6:46AM
To answer the other thing you asked however, the rotors are cast iron. Find a local competent machine shop that can drill out for the 5x4.5 bolt pattern, and have them press out and press in the wheel studs.

Other consideration is if using a late 73-74+ spindle, make sure you have late 73+ plus spindles otherwise you could have issues on wheel bearings. 
I'm sure you can find the right OD/ID wheel bearings but just as a reminder for all the 1971 thru mid year 1973 full frame intermediates used a smaller wheel bearing than the late '73-74 model year cars.

Aftermarket big brake kits are based off using the 1974+ spindle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2018 at 11:40AM
If your spindles are from a 73 fullsize, it should have the big bearings.
Same for Thunderbird/Mark IV.
No sign of there ever being a small bearing rotor with 5x5 pattern.
 
 
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2018 at 1:22PM
i do remember finding a rotor that had a different height measurement, could've been when i was searching for the Lincoln rotors, that's why i wanted to pin down the correct 5-5" rotor to maintain the same brake surface locations as the 1972 Intermediate 5-4.5" 10.8" rotor

went back & looked at several 74-79 listings, they're all 6040 Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 3:07AM
Big bird, not correct.
1972 Lincoln mark four used the small bearing 5x5 rotors.

This was when I had my Aero racing 5x5 nascar type 59 wheels.
They were 5x5 bolt pattern.

I stumbled upon a mark 4 at the upullit yard near my house so I snagged the rotor and caliper brackets.
Same spindle as Torino from what I could tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 8:42AM
Andrew,
  I use a '72 Lincoln Mark IV drum brake rear axle assembly(converted to rear disc) in my Ranchero, the factory axles it came with had 5 on 4.5" bolt circle. I went with this rear axle assembly due to bolt circle and factory 31 spline axles, even though it also utilized the "oddball" 9 3/8" with 2.80 gears(later changed to 3.25's with 4 pinion Trac-lok). I never took an in-depth look at the '72 Mark IV's front hub/rotor, as far as the spindle and/or wheel bearing sizes/numbers but the front rotors did have 5 on 4.5" BC.
 
'72 Lincoln Mark IV rear drum example:


Edited by aquartlow - 24-March-2018 at 8:48AM
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 10:13AM
i just checked the 1972 Continental & MarkIV both use 5-4.5" patterns,

but the Continental has a different rotor height dimension of 4.525" vs 4.829" for the 72-79 Intermediates

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1043019&cc=1187737&jsn=438

the Continental also uses different calipers than the Mark IV which are the same as ours

what's the difference between a Police/Taxi caliper and non Police/Taxi?






Edited by Rockatansky - 24-March-2018 at 10:24AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 12:13PM
72 Mark IV left the factory with 5x4.5.
72 continental fullsize uses a different rotor/spindle, same as 70-72 fullsize Ford/Mercury.
The "Universal Spindle" didn't appear until 1973.
 
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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