351 Cleveland Spark Plugs?! |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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Posted: 28-April-2018 at 3:31PM |
OEM was 192
i doubt 3* will make a difference |
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72 GT Ute
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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The Pertronix ignitor was installed in a stock distributor before I bought the car.
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73 GTS |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Don't know about the brass plate my goal is to check tomorrow. Was the 195 degree thermostat I got okay? If I remember correctly, it is the original equipment temperature temperature, but there are some that are 185 as well.
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73 GTS |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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Yup the thermostat itself is exactly the same, it's the hat that controls coolant flow through the internal bypass that makes the difference. the brass plate is the bypass orifice that is supposed to be press fit into the block, not normally removed except by unknowing/caring machine shop guys and teknicul wizards that think they know better than Henry ... and a few guys that figure out what it's doing and make compensations for successful operation w/o the plate
does your engine have the brass plate installed under the thermostat? next question when the Pertronix got installed who set the timing and to what? base ignition timing has a lot to do with the engine wanting to run or die at idle, changing from points to Pertronix does require setting the timing |
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72 GT Ute
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Mr. Gasket makes one of these part number 4365, I chose the 195 degree, is that correct? In addition, what's on the track boss website, the last two to three pictures of that brass circular plate, does not come with the thermostat with Mr. Gasket. But they look almost identical in regards to the thermostat itself between track boss and Mr. Gasket part number 4365 |
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73 GTS |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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So I got the plugs back to .35. Still as stubborn starting, I know do the carburetor issues, it was still rather cold natured. However after doing some carb adjustments after the engine warmed up it sounded really good! Doesn't cut off in reverse anymore, but now it tends to want to cut off when I put it in Drive unless I put my foot on the gas in time before it shuts off, any ideas?
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73 GTS |
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russosborne
Senior Member Joined: 01-January-2015 Location: Glendale AZ Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Yep, I will check the thermostat out, supposed to be raining the next few days so I'm out of luck at the moment.
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73 GTS |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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I believe it's direct vacuum on the distributor, is that what you're referring to?
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73 GTS |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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600 or 650 should be fine. kinda sounds like timing? hows the vacuum advance routed? ported or direct vacuum?
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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first thing i would do is throw a kit into the carb and see what that does, the accel pump is shot
but like Cousin Vinny says don't forget the 1st step and check the stat out |
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72 GT Ute
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Thanks for the info thus for everyone! Ironically I just had someone tell me within the last few days that a 351 Cleveland's all they need particularly for a mildly built 351 such as mine is 600 CFM preferably Holly. The 1850 is one that I was looking at but I was looking at an electric choke version over a manual.
Is there a benefit to either or outside of easier starting for an electric choke? |
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73 GTS |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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The previous owner told me was hard to start and it is, if I don't drive it for a while I have to at times pour gas down the throat of the carburetor and pump the gas sometimes to get it to start. Once it turns over and starts I generally have to rev it a few times so it won't cut off.
After I've driven it for a while I no longer have to pump the gas or put gas in the throat of the carburetor, but it turns over six seven eight times before finally catches fire and runs
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73 GTS |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Edlebrock 2v intake |
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73 GTS |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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i totally agree! yes old school 1850 style. i first saw one of these new style holley's on alex's wagon when i was down there... took the air filter off to check and adjust the float level then retune the mixture screws... it had no external float adjustment or sight plugs to check the fuel level!!! i was not impressed!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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oh and what intake?
timing alone can be why it doesn't stay running and/or make heat Edited by Rockatansky - 22-April-2018 at 2:21PM |
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72 GT Ute
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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Pertronix says their Flamethrower canister style is 40k volts ...
main reason i don't like changing the recommended gap of a plug is because the strap electrode is designed & shaped for the intended gap. if you open the gap the strap is no longer parallel across the center electrode and both electrodes wear very quickly due to the angular geometry. as the electrodes wear very quickly, the gap changes just as fast. parallel electrodes maintain the desired gap over a long period :) multiple strap side gap plugs even longer 1 heat range or opening the gap some usually doesn't make enough difference to notice and the home scientists that run those experiments can almost always convince themselves of improvement even when the laws of physics suggest the results should opposite start changing things that are right with other issues and you see what can happen, the small insignificant changes that would normally get eaten up by everything else being right now compound existing unrelated issues so about your manual chokeless carb, any idea who might have tried tuning it to the point that it sucks now? not too many people complain about the Edelbrock carbs except that they don't make the power that Holleys do. do you know what model number carb you have there, it should be stamped on the left front mounting ear? from the model number you can reverse engineer what's been done to it and either return it factory calibration and start fresh, try to make improvements from where you're at now or decide to pitch it and start over with something else. the Edelbrock site has the tuning charts that shows what change to make for the desired results i'll throw out there that the new 'designer Holleys' are nothing but trouble on 351C's IDK why but they are. 80457 comes to mind, vacuum 600 newfangled POS the world doesn't need just use a 1850 because they work. seems like all the new toughguy named Holleys suck. street brawler avenger warrior don't get caught up in a name, the old standard Holleys work the new crap not so much get yourself a gasket or you can just use silicone if done correctly (clean & dry surfaces) and post some pics of what you find inside the stat housing and we'll see what you have going on in there |
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72 GT Ute
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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John, I have a FlameThrower coil now, for whatever reason my brand new Accel coil would not get the car to start! And I personally like Accel! |
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73 GTS |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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actually thinking about it now... i'm used to HEI 60,000 volt coils, pertronix just converts the pionts to electronic ignition you probably still have the old 30,000 volt coil? so then yes .035
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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i was just going from memory they say more gap for a hotter ignition than points but try .035 you can't go wrong there
sounds like it's running rich but yes timing and carb adjustment can affect the running and idle too! i'm not a fan of edelbrock carbs i personally prefer holleys! but i'd recommend adding 1 or 2 good inline fuel filters! holley's don't like dirt!!!! |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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I have them gapped at .045 which may be the problem... |
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DARE to be DIFFERENT!!
73 GTS |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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I never even looked at the thermostat since I've had the car the last few years, I'll check it out. Also the car has a 600 manual choke Edelbrock carburetor on it which is complete garbage right now.
There is no choke on it anywhere I just have to give it gas or floor to get it to start...And it is a complete pain to do so! My goal is to go possibly with a Holley 600 or 650 electric choke in the next month or two |
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DARE to be DIFFERENT!!
73 GTS |
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changinlatitudes
Senior Member Joined: 14-April-2013 Location: Union, MO Status: Offline Points: 554 |
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Hmmm....never had a cold issue with my 24s, but I also gapped at .035".
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Matt
1969 Mercury Marauder 390 1972 Montego MX 2003 Mercury Marauder 300A 1994 F-150 5.8 2016 Ford Fusion Titanium |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Not sure where the timing is set at the moment.
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DARE to be DIFFERENT!!
73 GTS |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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To veteran members replied here and said to do the 24 so that's why I did it, John said he believed they were supposed to be set at .045
Not blaming anybody of course, just going by what was shared with me
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DARE to be DIFFERENT!!
73 GTS |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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what's the timing set at?
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72 GT Ute
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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have you checked the thermostat yet?
351C takes a special stat with a 'hat' on the temp sensor pod that works in conjunction with a brass restrictor that is press fit into the block below the stat. many brass restrictors have been removed by individuals that think they may be smarter than Henry, many have incorrect generic chevy & windsor type stats installed and many suffer from both conditions dark brown / black plugs indicate a possible choke not opening situation which in turn relates to the engine not getting hot but may be it's own can of worms. also maybe an easy fix if it is indeed a choke issue =============================== UR4 is correct for 1973 351C https://www.sparkplugs.com/Automotive-c134.aspx also calls out Autolite 25 not 24 ? ignore the 45's they're for Windsor mixed into the listing oh guess what? 24 is Colder than 25, may explain something and stick to the recommended gap for the plug / application which is .035" https://www.sparkplugs.com/learning-center/article/225/heat-range-conversion-chart Edited by Rockatansky - 22-April-2018 at 10:51AM |
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72 GT Ute
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Ok John sounds good.
So I bought the Autolite 24 plugs.. here's what happened the car was already cold natured now it's even worse took a lot longer for the car to warm up reved it up more than what I usually have to get to idle without shutting off. Once I got it to idle to about 950 or so on its own, when I put it in reverse it shuts off the idle goes down of course. However the car starts right back up. If I can get it from Park to Reverse down to Drive it's no problem it's when I put it in reverse it shuts off. I did Gap the plugs to .45 like John said. But the NGK plug I took out which is an NGK UR4 which is what was in there when I bought the car, seems to have been gapped and about .35. I believe I put these in some years ago, but that was the plug that was in there when I first got the car. Can anybody give me any insight as to why the car now take so long to warm up, and why it wants to shut off when it's put in reverse?? Once it does warm up and idle it sounds a lot better than it did!..When I took out the plugs that were fouled out all of them were dark brown or black... Any insight? |
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DARE to be DIFFERENT!!
73 GTS |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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ok i thought you did, i'd say about .045?
oh BTW i just found those radio knobs for you (they were buried here on my desk ) and i have the door plastic stuff here for you too... |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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GoldFinger
Senior Member Joined: 03-April-2015 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Thanks John!.. everything was changed inside the distributor with Petronix.
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DARE to be DIFFERENT!!
73 GTS |
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