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Limited slip differential

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Markb73gtorino View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-December-2018 at 11:05PM
I am not familiar with an inch pound bearing preload. I know the Harbor freight sells relatively in expensive presses that I have seen in videos used to press bearings. The nice thing about the 3rd member replacement is off with the old, on with the new. Once I have the rearend apart and the old Diff out it looks to be a fairly simple re-install. The 9" has adjusting nuts instead of shims so that is really cool. The toughest part to me looks to be getting the 3rd member back on. I may remove the entire rearend just for easier access. Then replacing bushings and such is fairly simple in the rear arms that attach the 9" to the car. No matter what I am in over my head, but there is no other way to learn and get better. After I retire from the Army I want to build cars . Thanks for all of the support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-December-2018 at 9:58AM
start scouting shops in the area, get word of mouth feedback, there are rock stars and rip-offs in any industry.

nothing's getting cheaper but i'd hope you could get the whole thing done including axle bearings for that much? and if you have the shop do the R&R labor that's a double bonus CYA

you're familiar with inch-lb bearing preload? i had to buy an in-lb tq wrench from an on-line bicycle shop to set up my manual steering gear sector shaft, and use duck tape to fill a socket to turn the splined shaft. IDK how i'd rig up to set the carrier side adjusters? specialized tools are a beautiful thing





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-December-2018 at 7:03AM
All good points, I am considering buying a press for the bearing install, but the complete 3rd member is attractive. In the long run the costs may be similar. I rebuilt a Dana 44 front diff on a 95 Bronco and it went ok. Not to intimidated but very cautious none the less. The pinion on my torino leaks as well so it looks like.more than just a new LSD . Thanks for the advice. A new 3rd member is around 900 bucks from what I have seen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-December-2018 at 5:21AM
1st question is if Mark is comfortable setting pinion and carrier bearing preload in inch-lbs?

most Homer J. Homers are not equipped or experienced enough to attempt and successfully stick a complete 3rd member overhaul with gear change ... go for the complete assembled unit with a warranty ;)

when the time comes, 1st step get the axles out & run them over to the local transmission or full sevice parts house that presses bearings and they'll be ready to install when you need them ;) ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-December-2018 at 7:18PM
hmm, does it involve a 4 foot length of 1 1/2" pipe???
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rons73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-December-2018 at 4:48PM
I think you would be happy with the 3.5 gears, but that is just my opinion. You shouldn't need a new third member unless something is broken inside (pinion support casting can break with abuse but unlikely in your case) so I wouldn't look at replacing yours. You will get all the seals, bearings and shims for the center section in a ring and pinion install kit. Have a look at Summit racing or Jegs online and they will show what I mean. I cannot remember if you mentioned leaks at the axles, usually for the 9 inch axles you can get an axle seal kit that also includes the bearing and lock sleeve/retainer. These are a bear to do properly if you have not had previous experience. Take em to a shop unless there is someone close who can help. When I was a Ford tech we had a press and some jigs/pullers and it was easy.  I won't tell you how I do them now, I'll just suggest you take em to a shop.  If they are not leaking I would leave em alone unless it will keep you up at night. Again, just my opinion. Anyone else got some suggestions? Merry Christmas!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-December-2018 at 10:15PM
Ron, yes you hit the nail on the head. I want my car to be the wolf in sheeps clothing. I think the tracloc is a very good option. An entire third member is around 800 and I have my second son heading off to college next fall. My boys spend most of the money my darling wife and I have. If I was going to go full on hot rod for the drag strip I think the new third member is the way to go. My current third member has a leak at the point where just before the U joint attaches so I will be putting in a new seal there as well. Looks like new bearings will be needed for the trac loc as well as as axle seals. Let me know if there is anything else I am forgetting. I am blessed in the fact that my 73 sedan has no rust. More to follow gentlemen. Have a Merry Christmas.
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rons73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-December-2018 at 5:36PM
LoL gotta love ebay. Maybe my world is a bit bigger than i thought???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-December-2018 at 4:52PM
ron, it' says blain, wa. in the link but they are in B.C.!!! they drove mine across the border into blain and shipped if off to avoid the customs B.S.Wink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rons73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-December-2018 at 4:07PM
Mark, I mention the trac-loc as they are the stock Ford limited slip diff, and are generally inexpensive and readily available. CaliforniaJohnny put up an ebay link, but members in your neck of the woods might have favorite vendors. I do not get to enjoy the parts availability and variety as easily as you guys do. Plus I think the exchange rate is somewhere around $1 US to $500 Cdn lol. Hence I tend to do things on the cheaper side. There are better units out there, Billy C mentioned a helical geared unit if he was looking for better as well. Give us an idea of your budget and usage and we can fine tune suggestions a bit.
For example - I am going to guess you want a peppy, fun car, but like all of us, have to watch how we spend what we make. Perhaps a few passes down a strip for fun, occasionally leaving a little rubber on the street, and only fueling up every third gas station. A trac-loc fills the bill. 3.25 or 3.5 rear axle gears will make you think you have 75 extra cubes up front, and keeps the rpms reasonable on the freeway.
If you want to do more aggressive activities, let the gurus here know and they will happily help out.
I love your car btw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-December-2018 at 12:55AM
Ron, I would like to change the ratio. When I bolt in the new diff I will be doing this for the first time. There are a number of choices out there. Is Trac loc a good choice. In the long run I want my Torino to be a hot rod with in reason. After the rear end is done I will start work on the motor. 4bl, headers etc. Who would you buy your trac liv from?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rons73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-December-2018 at 6:42PM
Mark are you planning to change the gear ratio as well? As far as the "seat of the pants" meter goes, changing to steeper gears gives a high smiles to dollars ratio. I cannot remember what you had planned, but a fun weekend toy scenario would have me running an inexpensive trac-loc with gears in the range of 3.7-4.11. A bit hard on tires Wink and highway travel is less fun, but it depends on what you want to do. With your automatic trans, it would be safe to keep the 28 splined axles, putting the money into the locker and gears.  Now if you were dropping the clutch at 5000 rpm into some sticky slicks...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2018 at 2:22PM
Thanks brother
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2018 at 2:14PM
I am not looking to race or beat my car so the one wheel peel is fine by me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2018 at 2:13PM
Same one in mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2018 at 1:10PM
So I was able to read the tag on my Diff and my torino has a 9' rear end with a 2.75 ratio and a 28 spline. Thanks all for the help. After I finish the steering rebuild the diff is next
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2018 at 12:48PM
I covered off the different rear bearings in this post here:
 
 
I didn't cover off housing differences though.
 
The 3 hole thing isn't always true like Todd says.  My car has the 1972 axles that were replaced under the recall in 1972.  They are 28 spline and have 3 holes in the centre of the axles.


Edited by 72FordGTS - 16-December-2018 at 12:48PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2018 at 3:41AM
Are there any oem 31 spline drop ins for a big tapered bearing style axle housing? Don't mean to high-jack the thread.

In fact, there should be a thread of the different swap options like with the front hub/rotor madness. There are three housings that are a direct bolt on for the Torino.

What 31s drop into the small ball bearing housing?

What 31s drop into the small taper bearing housing?

What 31s drop into the large taper bearing housing?

I've had all 3 in 28 spline at some point or another but I'm not sure if I ever took measurements. Maybe I have pictures.


Originally posted by Rons73 Rons73 wrote:

The stock clutch style (ford trac-loc?) type are affordable and work great for mild performance applications. Had em in pickups and a bronco, and they work and are easy to rebuild when they don't. I will be upgrading to a Yukon limited slip center and 31 spline axles on my car. I wanted a helical, but i got a smokin deal on the Yukon. And i wanted 31's as I have twisted 28's before, on my dirt track street stock back in the day, so there is that. But if you run street tires they should act as the fuse somewhat. I don't know how Billy gets away with it with that beast of his Shocked

I think I can get away with it because I run a 3.25 or maybe its a 3.50. I can't remember, but it kind of works out like this...

~600ft/lbs (built bb) * 2.87 (TKO 1st) * 3.25 (final drive) = ~5500ft/lbs

~450ft/lbs (build sb) * 2.87 (TKO 1st) * 4.11 (final drive) = ~5300ft/lbs

Those two setups have pretty similar potential to break axles and difs and I'm sure tons of folks are running the second one with 28 spline axles. Maybe 450ft/lbs is generous for a small block. I don't know.

-Billy Conturo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2018 at 2:19AM
Originally posted by MrSmog MrSmog wrote:

31 spline will have 3 holes in the end of the axle, 28 splines will have a oval-ish slot in the end of the axle. These cars all had 28 spline axles from the factory, both 8" and 9" used the same axles.
 
I was burned a couple times using the 3 hole I.D. method, both sets of axles I had were 3 hole versions and only one set had 31 splines. Here is a link to Vince's (72FordGTS) work on his Torino's rear axle assembly a few years back, he verified the "deception" : http://forum.grantorinosport.org/rear-axle-questions_topic9149.html
 Two words to(at least for me) avoid when working on a Ford, never and always, unless of course you have Nomex underwear on Embarrassed.


Edited by aquartlow - 16-December-2018 at 2:24AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2018 at 6:34PM
31 spline will have 3 holes in the end of the axle, 28 splines will have a oval-ish slot in the end of the axle. These cars all had 28 spline axles from the factory, both 8" and 9" used the same axles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2018 at 1:44PM
Sand it*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2018 at 1:43PM
That is what I am doing. I painted it and now I will stand it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2018 at 1:30PM
Originally posted by Markb73gtorino Markb73gtorino wrote:

Thanks Ron and all,
I confirmed my rear is a 9 inch today, it still had the tag on the diff, however is rusty so I am deciphering it now. So the 28 vs 31 spline is still unknown.
Mark

Try some sand cloth on both sides. It may tell you what it is. Mine was hard to read until I sanded it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2018 at 12:48PM
here's where i got mine for my torino...

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-9-INCH-TRAC-LOCK-POSI-TRAC-LSD-NEW-4-SPIDER-28-SPL-MUSTANG-SUPER-SALE/153052133427?hash=item23a29e3833:g:yAkAAOSwft9axT0N:rk:8:pf:0

not a bad deal IIRC i paid $331 for mine a few years ago  ( they also have a 31 spline too)
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2018 at 12:18PM
Thanks Ron and all,
I confirmed my rear is a 9 inch today, it still had the tag on the diff, however is rusty so I am deciphering it now. So the 28 vs 31 spline is still unknown.
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rons73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2018 at 5:49PM
The stock clutch style (ford trac-loc?) type are affordable and work great for mild performance applications. Had em in pickups and a bronco, and they work and are easy to rebuild when they don't. I will be upgrading to a Yukon limited slip center and 31 spline axles on my car. I wanted a helical, but i got a smokin deal on the Yukon. And i wanted 31's as I have twisted 28's before, on my dirt track street stock back in the day, so there is that. But if you run street tires they should act as the fuse somewhat. I don't know how Billy gets away with it with that beast of his Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2018 at 3:35AM
looks like Torsen only does a 31 spline unit for 9", so factor in complete axle & bearing assy's to the budget ... and they may not be rebuildable?


last i heard Auburn unit's are disposable but they do a 28 spline





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markb73gtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2018 at 2:39PM
Thanks guys, I am planning to replace the center section, but since you mentioned it to rebiuld the carrier seems like it may be easier. This is all new territory for me so I am learning as I go. The bottom line is I want power to both wheels. The helical differential seems like a good idea. I really appreciate all the help.
Marl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2018 at 12:45PM
I have the 28 spline axles and a rebuilt clutch style differential out of a late 70s lincoln.  I know I could break it if I tried but I only run the R-comps at Auto-x and never fully launch the car. If I had to do it over I would probably find the strongest helical style differential and stick to the 28 spline axles. I don't think the axles are the weak link especially when the torque is distributed to both wheels with something like a helical setup and a low final drive is used.
-Billy Conturo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2018 at 2:21PM
ratio has little to nothing to do with it, GM uses different carrier housings for different ratios but Ford doesn't. in the Ford 9" there are 2 basic carriers for open differential and Trac-Loc units. the 2 main factors to pay attention to are the axle spline count and the pinion flange. are you planning to replace the entire 3rd member complete or just retro-fit yours with a upgraded center section? 
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