|
351c ENGINE BUILDERS |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
castillo 
Senior Member 
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: 351c ENGINE BUILDERSPosted: 14-January-2009 at 8:13AM |
|
Well its 4 degrees w/-20 wind chill and we were given the week off.. So I'm taking this as a chance to get caught up.. I have dug out the freshly rebuilt 351c.. Here are the specs
1. 4 bolt main D2 block(she has all the go-fast machine work w/ a bored .030 over)
*I did have the rear oil passage restricted.. I bought the kit but after a lot of discussion I chose to get only the rear passage restricted.. I'll report back if I have problems later...
2.The rotating assembly is a great piece.. The car I pulled these from had very low mileage..This translated into a crank which cleaned up with a simple polish and chamfering the oil passages.. My machinist advised me that the crank showed no signs of being a high mileage piece.. He said to go with a .001 oversized main & rod set(clevite 77 CB-927P-1 & MS-1010P)..The rods were like wise in great shape..These are standard D0AE w/ARP bolts.. I was advised that polishing the rods wasn't needed and to spend the money on balancing..
3. the pistons are Keith Black Hypereutectic KB110.. I was told these offer the builder tighter piston-to-bore clearances.. with early closed chamber heads I estimating compression between 10.2-10.5
4. The cam is CompCams xe274h-10 hydraulic grind.. I bought the entire package cam,lifters,timing chain springs..
5.The oil pump and pick up are Mellingm-84AHV
At this point I would estimate HP @ 400-425 coming in at around 5850-6200 rpm..
My question is what would the forum advise.. Should I paint the lifter valley or any other suggestions
If any one has a used windage tray and hardware I'd be willing to buy or trade for it.. Thanks.. I will follow up with pics
|
|
 |
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-January-2009 at 2:10PM |
|
Here's a great 71 ford tech article on the 351c potentials http://www.ndmotorsports.com/wiki/fordputons.pdf
|
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-January-2009 at 2:19PM |
|
The first line kills me "Only one of the Ford 351-cubic-inch V8 engines has a real future.."
Yeah hindsight is 20/20.. More like 2 years.. Anyways the results were pretty good.. The stock carb surprised me.. 345 horses with a very mild cam swap.. I may have to rethink the 4300.. And the stock distributor did fairly well to..
|
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-January-2009 at 2:29PM |
|
Sorry 300 horses with the stock carb
|
|
|
|
|
starsky76
Senior Member
Joined: 28-March-2008 Location: vegas Status: Offline Points: 1385 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-January-2009 at 4:06PM |
|
Yeah get busy!We had a high of 15 today,a heat wave compared to you!Sounds like a nice piece.Is it put togehter yet or you getting ready?You could paint the lifter area,that's good for any motor.Use the right stuff thou,eastwood has it as I'm sure other places do also.I don't know the tricks with clevelands, FE engine or windsor is my game.Post some pics!
|
|
|
|
|
BBPeik
Senior Member
Joined: 17-July-2008 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15-January-2009 at 10:12AM |
|
Sounds almost exactly like the engine I just built. The only difference is that mine is .030 over and I have the 270 magnum cam. Not quite as much cam as yours, but pretty much the same. The only problem that I had was that I set the cam advanced which actually was 8 degrees advanced. Too much to say the least. I did not know that straight up was actually 4 degrees advanced. I am just getting it back together now. I will let you know how it works out. I should be at about 400hp I hope.
Brendan
|
|
|
1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade
|
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15-January-2009 at 12:16PM |
|
This is a really staight forward build..I went this way for a easy dependable engine..I'll be happy to get the short block together in the following weeks..I have the bottom end all boxed up.. I think I will paint the lifter valley.. Did you have any leaks.. Any tricks for that oil pan gasket..I'm using a Fel-Pro gasket kit and I'm wondering if I should switch to a 1 piece gasket..I'm also looking at my wallet and trying to make room in the budget for the windage tray..What carb are you using..I've never built a cleveland.. I just hope this is what I'm looking for...
|
|
|
|
|
BBPeik
Senior Member
Joined: 17-July-2008 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15-January-2009 at 1:46PM |
|
I have never built a cleveland either, but mine worked out ok. I was going to paint the valley but changed my mind. My oil pan gasket went pretty easy. I used the two piece and had no leaks. I had no leaks on the whole engine, trust me I was amazed. Now that it is going back together again I might have a leak in the front of the pan though because I did the timing cover without pulling the oil pan. I trimmed the gasket and used a lot of spooge. Hope it works, if not I will just pull the pan and try again. I was trying to save time, but we will just see if it works. As far as the carb goes I am using an edelbrock 750. It is hard to tell until I get the cam timing correct to see if that is too much carb. My friend has a similar set up though and the 750 seems to work ok. Just use a real good ignition system. Anyway thanks for the questions. Mine will be running on saturday and I will let you know how it turns out.
Thanks Brendan
|
|
|
1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade
|
|
|
|
|
GranTorinoMan
Senior Member
Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-January-2009 at 5:50AM |
|
I have the CamQuest program, if you can give me some basic specs, I can tell you what kind of power you can expect from the XE274H:
Vehicle Usage -
Drag Strip (Yes/No) -
Heads (Iron/Alum) -
Head Work (Stock/Porting) -
Vehicle Total Weight -
Valve Sizes (Intake & Exhaust) -
Compression - 10.5
Intake Manifold Type -
Carb CFM -
Fuel - Gas
Exhaust Manifold (Cast/Headers) -
Exhaust Design (Single/Dual/Cats/Pipe Size) -
|
|
|
|
|
BBPeik
Senior Member
Joined: 17-July-2008 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-January-2009 at 8:32AM |
|
I just downloaded the camquest program. It is just great. Within minutes I had all the info for my motor. Mine came out to 404hp and 451 lbft torque. Now lets just hope those numbers are correct.
|
|
|
1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade
|
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-January-2009 at 11:24AM |
|
Vehicle Usage - Street/ some/maybe drag
Drag Strip (Yes/No) -yes just as a weekend warrior
Heads (Iron/Alum) - iron
Head Work (Stock/Porting) -stock 4v(untouched)
Vehicle Total Weight - 4000
Valve Sizes (Intake & Exhaust) -2.19/1.73
Compression - 10.5 maybe higher as block&heads were milled (just a clean up as advised by machinst).. Pistons have 1 valve relief- incase this also may increase compression
Intake Manifold Type -stock 73/74 4v
Carb CFM -600stock/750 spread bore holley(still debating)
Fuel - Gas
Exhaust Manifold (Cast/Headers) -cast/ headers 1 7/8 primary 3 collector(99% sure cast 4v manifolds)
Exhaust Design (Single/Dual/Cats/Pipe Size) -dual staight possible w/resonators
Thanks for the heads up.. I've been meaning to talk to you as clearly you have more strip experience than I do
|
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-January-2009 at 11:35AM |
|
Here are the entire specs on the cam per COMPCAMS card
Gross lift intake:.562 exhaust .565
Duration @ .006 tappet lift 274 intake 286 exhaust
Valve timing @ .006 open close
int:31btdc 63 abdc
exh:77bbdc 29atdc
106 intake centerline
duration @ .050 intake 230 exhaust 236
lobe lift .3270 intake .3270 exhaust
lobe seperation 110.0
Everyone I talked to said the clevelands exhaust port was the short coming on the heads so after a lot of research I decided on this dual profile cam.. I think this should pay off but we'll see once she's all together.. If I change this one out I would choose a roller next..
|
|
|
|
|
BBPeik
Senior Member
Joined: 17-July-2008 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-January-2009 at 11:53AM |
|
Everything I have heard says that the dual profile is good for the 4v heads. I have 2v heads that is why I went with the different cam. Sounds real good though. That program is available for a free download from comp cams. It is nice because they let you pick any of their cams and see how it affects your hp. Real cool program. I was glad it was suggested. The program also lets you know the optimum stall range for your torque converter which is very helpful. Good Luck Brendan
|
|
|
1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade
|
|
|
|
|
GranTorinoMan
Senior Member
Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-January-2009 at 4:26AM |
|
Comp Cam XE274H/351C
600cfm Carb
Peak HP - 370.7 @ 5500 RPM
Peak TQ - 410.6 ftlb @ 4000 RPM 750cfm Carb
Peak HP - 378.8 @ 5500 RPM
Peak TQ - 414.7 @ 4000 RPM
For the drag strip these cars are heavy and you need gears to get all that weight going. I run special 1st & 2nd gears in my C6 and 4.33 gears in the rear. With a 28" tall tire I hit about 6400 RPM at the top end of the 1/4 mile (4070lbs / 11.7 sec).
Edited by GranTorinoMan - 17-January-2009 at 4:39AM |
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-January-2009 at 12:59PM |
|
Man that pissed me off.. I was hoping to crack 400hp in stock form..I'll be runnig A/C and all the standard power equipment..Oh well.. I still think I can get there with headers and a intake swap..I do know I'm trying to get more on the cheap.. I believe I have just over 2200 spent on the engine(my pistons were the most expesive pieces I bought).. That cheers me up, but so much for challenging a hemi charger.. At 370-380 hp I might can't challenge even a hemi ram..
I haven't had any work done on the tranny yet what are your specs??
And what do you think about my plans
I was going to do a basic rebuild with the kevlar band/bands and a shift kit.. I'm staying away from the r-servo as most people say it truely was for strip applications..My car has a C-6 so she should be able to handle my engine easily..What would you advise and who did you get your parts from..Also what are you running 351, 429 or bigger.. Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-January-2009 at 1:39PM |
|
I was wondering if members read that 71 tech article and noticed how reliable the entire package was.. The stock single point distributor was good to just under 5500 rpm..
Now I know I'm going to get some mess started but for guys here I would say most of our cars won't be driven above 4000 rpm..And sticking with ignition as a sample: all the aftermarket ignition add-ons are usually just hype..Yeah I know a 40,000 volt coil will let you open you spark plug gap but the mods are still only worth 3-7hp.. All I'm trying to say is ford did a DAMN good job from the start..
Here another secret: a sigle point distributor with a upper bushing installed would have made it 6000 rpm.. And weight&spring mods would have gotten the timing more dialed in to the cam swaps..Add an adjustable vacuum advance and that single point would have been SWEEEET
Another thing: The guy called a 300horse as delivered engine weak-He's been working on to many race engines if ask me.. Oh yeah ford was making one badass 429scj that year to..
|
|
|
|
|
GranTorinoMan
Senior Member
Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18-January-2009 at 4:42AM |
|
Your highest HP gain can be found in the heads. A set of stock heads that are pocket ported with stock valves will give you the following numbers:
Carb - 750 CFM
Peak HP - 428.2 @ 6000
Peak TQ - 430.7 @ 4500
Even more power can be found with a good valve grind. I followed this article to the letter and it made a big improvement to the flow of my CJ heads. Find a good machine shop in town with a flow bench and spend your money here first.
|
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18-January-2009 at 10:24AM |
|
Great article.. I'll have make some phone calls.. I'm very interested...
|
|
|
|
|
GranTorinoMan
Senior Member
Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19-January-2009 at 4:34AM |
|
Make sure the machine shop gives you the flow numbers for your heads before and after the mods so you can compare. CamQuest allows head flow specs to be entered to get even more accurate HP/TQ numbers.
Edited by GranTorinoMan - 20-January-2009 at 4:10AM |
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19-January-2009 at 11:12AM |
|
Here are some pics
 Shes now sitting in the kitchen until I assembly all the little pieces..If anyone has a windage tray I'd like to buy it |
|
|
|
|
starsky76
Senior Member
Joined: 28-March-2008 Location: vegas Status: Offline Points: 1385 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19-January-2009 at 12:59PM |
|
Build it,they will come!
|
|
|
|
|
SininenIII
Senior Member
Joined: 06-March-2008 Location: Vuolenkoski FIN Status: Offline Points: 462 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19-January-2009 at 9:44PM |
|
Here´s my rebuilt Cleveland, still waiting break-in, delayed due the lack of time and money.
D0AE-L 2bolt main block bored .030. Both main and rod bearings standard size.
D0AE rods with ARP-bolts ( all critical bolts ARP)
Speed pro hypereutectic pistons
Edelbrock aluminum heads 60cc chambers, calculated 10.3:1 compression ratio.
Edelbrock Airgap RPM intake manifold, polished myself
Comp Cams valvetrain, 280H Magnum cam, Pro Magnum steel roller rockers, timing chain, lifters.
Trick-flow push rods
Melling 84AHV oilpump
Moroso 6 quart oil pan
Milodon water pump
New Holley 650HP double pumper along with some other parts waiting in the corner of my daughters bedroom, that Carter in the pic is planned for the Galaxie build in the future.
I´ll propably relocate the coil, don´t like the current location.
-Aatu
 Edited by SininenIII - 19-January-2009 at 9:56PM |
|
|
Aatu
73 Gran Torino Sport |
|
|
|
|
GranTorinoMan
Senior Member
Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-January-2009 at 4:20AM |
|
Romy, this is a perfect time to have your heads pocket ported while the your engine is apart or you can invest in a set of Edelbrock aluminum heads like Aatu did in Finland. Beautiful looking engines by the way.
Edited by GranTorinoMan - 20-January-2009 at 4:23AM |
|
|
|
|
castillo
Senior Member
Joined: 20-February-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-January-2009 at 2:07PM |
|
Just wanted to give you guys PROPS on the pics and info
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
| Tweet |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options