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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Speedometer Issues
    Posted: 22-May-2021 at 1:31AM
ISI got back to me and said they would recalibrate it now or at the end of the driving season for no charge.  I will wait until the driving season is over and then send it back.  

Thanks for the information Rivercrest, but it looks like ISI will make it right for no charge.

Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2021 at 4:48PM
i saw the 1 of the Last Of The Montegos on the road today
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivercrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2021 at 1:29PM
Although it is not near you these people are well known here for their good service: Located in Winnipeg. They do speedo calibration and repairs. They do all Winnipeg police and RCMP units. Perhaps they can give you advice.

Sobering Automotive Centre Ltd
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(131) · Auto repair shop
7+ years in business · 1575 Dugald Rd · (204) 661-8525
Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2021 at 12:46AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

There was a song about it, "I can't go 55."

Those were sad years, low speed limits and lower powered cars.

True but thankfully Ford kept the Foxbody V8 powered and kept the Ford Probe...as a FWD car that would get stuck in 4-6 inches of snow, and killed it off. And then brought it back as the "new" Cougar for the 99-02 model years. And was thankfully put out to pasture.


I remember that last Cougar, I saw a new one on a dealers lot in about 1999. That was a modern day AMC Pacer, ugly and pitiful.

I cringe thinking of the AMC Pacer, my parents considered trading our 72 GT in on one when we were in Germany. The thing was smaller than the Gran Torino, driving in Europe was interesting in city streets. I recall our trip to Italy, and trying to get it washed near Piza. It was too wide for their machine, they had to wash it by hand. I need to locate those old slides, my parents took plenty of pictures back then.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2021 at 11:16PM
Good God man. I never knew this existed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2021 at 9:30PM
years ago i towed one of those cougars... what a disgraceOuch kinda like what they did to the nova and lemans of those years... sad don't even begin to describe those cars! what the hell were they thinking?Cry
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2021 at 4:48PM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

There was a song about it, "I can't go 55."

Those were sad years, low speed limits and lower powered cars.

True but thankfully Ford kept the Foxbody V8 powered and kept the Ford Probe...as a FWD car that would get stuck in 4-6 inches of snow, and killed it off. And then brought it back as the "new" Cougar for the 99-02 model years. And was thankfully put out to pasture.
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2021 at 4:46PM
A couple things. I looked into lube for speedometers last year. My speedo got this horrific chirp noise issue along with jumping issues at low speed.
I spent time researching and found the only oil you want to use is supposedly 3 in 1 Mineral oil.
Lubes like PB blaster and WD40 work ok but dry out.

the 3in1 oil is a mineral based oil and seems to be what's needed.
On the speedo cables, All I have ever used is a can of spray lithium grease, but I am sure there are specific lubes for cables.

Another oddball issue I ran into was my GTS has had factory cruise control items added in. Never used them, nor finished the install mainly because for some reason just not worried about it.
I have had the speed sensor that the main speedo cable screws into, lock up and fail ruining a cable. In turn stripping a speedo cable gear.

Typically what I do on gear replacements...
I order the correct gear for the tail shaft, seal kit for the tail shaft, and new speedo gears.
Fun fact:
Manual transmission speedo and tail shaft gears have a helix pattern that is reverse of the automatic transmission counterparts.

Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2021 at 11:51AM
OMG.....I remember all of that. His wife drank rubbing alcohol and ended up in the hospital.  The "NO TURN ON RED" thing was crazy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2021 at 9:29AM
Signage everywhere. "55 Saves Lives".  And Ma. Governor Dukakis got around the federal right on red by putting up bo turn on red at almost every intersection.  Sorry for the off-topic irrelevance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2021 at 9:07AM
There was a song about it, "I can't go 55."

Those were sad years, low speed limits and lower powered cars.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2021 at 1:14AM
Why do speedometers go up to 140 when the cars can't GO 140, and IF you did, you would go to jail?
Some 80s-90s comedian used to do a bit about this.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2021 at 6:12PM
i bought the white face overlays for my car... i like that as it makes them easier to see in the daylight since the sport cluster sits way back in a dark tunnel so to speak. and since i'm running red LED's they are now easier to read at night vs the blackWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2021 at 3:49PM
IIRC there was a White Face Gauges outfit that had an upgraded MPH speedo and 7k tach overlay but last time i looked they were no longer shown on the page. probably a bunch of complaints that the overlays required recalibration, which as i recall was clearly spelled out in the description

OK, the pics are still there in these listings, 160 mph & 8k tach




Edited by Rockatansky - 17-May-2021 at 4:11PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2021 at 12:48PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

I agree, it is kind of cool to have a 200 mph speedometer, but not as cool when the speedometer is marked in km/h.  On the plus side though, if anyone wants to do a custom overlay for our speedometers, it looks like ISI can calibrate it to those speeds.  So there is no need to hunt down a rare and super expensive police speedometers.

I haven't had a chance to contact ISI yet, I post their response when I hear back.


That's great, I was hoping a company like that could calibrate to another range. I'd like more than 120, but I'm not sure how much more would be better. The marks get closer together, which isn't really a good thing. I'd love to get a tach labeled and accurate to 7000rpm.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2021 at 12:47PM
   I honestly don't think I would ever bury the speedometer in any old car without a full race restraint and roll bar. When I was a kid it was never an isssue but now with the speed comes loss of license and six years of surcharges that go along with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2021 at 12:20PM
I agree, it is kind of cool to have a 200 mph speedometer, but not as cool when the speedometer is marked in km/h.  On the plus side though, if anyone wants to do a custom overlay for our speedometers, it looks like ISI can calibrate it to those speeds.  So there is no need to hunt down a rare and super expensive police speedometers.

I haven't had a chance to contact ISI yet, I post their response when I hear back.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2021 at 12:14PM
     Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Lol

   I bet they would fix it after you get it ready for bed in the fall. It is pretty cool though, you have to admit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2021 at 9:13AM
So I figured out the problem.  The speedometer was my problem with the bouncing needle and inaccurate readings I was having last year.  The cable is fine.  

Since the install of the rebuilt speedometer, it made no sense that the odometer was reading accurately, but the speedometer was off.  Randy was on the right path when he indicated it might have something to do with the overlay.  When ISI calibrated the speedometer, they calibrated mph to the kilometer scale (which are the big numbers on the overlay), which is why it was reading so low.  So now, when it shows 50 km/h, I am actually going 50 mph.  I used the GPS on my phone and the speedometer very accurate now when I use MPH, within 1 mph or so.   So Don was right when he said I have a 200 mph speedometer - I think this has to be the first 200 mph speedometer in a Torino!

Here is a pic of the speedometer.  The big numbers on the outside are supposed to be in km/h, but it is now calibrated for the big scale to be MPH.



So I am assuming this was an honest mistake by ISI, especially since no 1972 car has km/h from the factory (Canada didn't get metric speedometers until the late 1970s).  On top of that, the US cars that have km/h scales have the km/h scale as small numbers.  

What do you guys think is the best way to get this resolved?  I don't want to send my speedometer back and wait to another 4 months losing out on the best driving time.  I am hoping I can bring it to their attention now, but wait until the fall to send it back to ISI.  I would also think they should be doing the recalibration for free, although I will probably get stuck paying shipping at least one way.  Any advice is appreciated.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2021 at 12:28AM
Earlier in the thread you said you have an overlay converting to Kilometers.
Any chance that is inaccurate or installed wrong? (off-center maybe?) Since the Odometer and speedometer are driven by the same cable, any problem before the speedo head would be a shared problem. Only one part working sounds like a problem in the rebuilt unit.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2021 at 12:28PM
 How far off is the speed? Try a different gear after driving say 10 miles on the dot. If the speed and odometer are both off you will know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2021 at 12:02PM
So to update this thread, I finally got my speedometer back from from ISI and it's still not reading accurately.  It now reads way slower than actual speed, but seems to be smooth and consistent.  Oddly, I clocked a distance and the odometer seems to be reading accurately.  I am hoping it's not something with the speedometer rebuild, because I don't want to send it back.  I will drive the car a bit more and continue to check the accuracy of the odometer.

I removed the speedometer cable and lubricated it with white lithium grease.  It seems to move smoothly when installed, but it does hit a tight spot when installing.  

Anyone have any ideas?
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-November-2020 at 12:09PM
Headers can cook them as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-November-2020 at 7:39AM
A lot of "bouncing speedos" are caused by a burr or a dry spot on the cable.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-November-2020 at 9:20AM
Good question, 
  I did test the fuel, oil pressure and temperature gauges in the sport cluster that I installed in my  1976. I  don't recall the exact ohms.(13) I think. I did notice that they're all the same. They all work in the car as accurately as any 1970s technology can be.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-November-2020 at 8:00AM
I took the speedo out of the cluster and it looks in excellent shape.  No dirty or rust, it looks nearly new, although I am sure there is some wear.

Although Tachman didn't respond to me, I got a response from a couple other companies on the speedometer.  One was Instrument-Specialties, INC, who quoted the lowest price so far.  I bought my clock conversion from them too.  They said this in their response:

Those speedometers have a top jewel design and the jewel becomes oblong from use over time. We can rebuild it, re-magnetize the shaft, new jewels and calibrate, should be good as new.

I might send it off this winter, but I will fiddle with it a bit more in the mean time.

On the fuel gauge, I was wondering if anyone has bench tested one before?  I was going to try and rig something up to vary the resistance to ground, from 10 ohms to 70 ohms to see if the gauge reads properly.  Just not sure the best way to go about it with the cluster out of the car.  Any ideas?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2020 at 1:16AM
Dorman parts are the current standard for later cars, and they are expanding to other makes and years. I wonder where those are made, because they make so much. Lots of it is appreciated, but much of it is low quality also.

I like that voltage regulator too. Is that for a 9v battery, I always wondered why they had those odd terminals?
Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-October-2020 at 11:43AM
Yes, that is it.  I just checked the part number in the catalog and it is correct for the gauge cluster cars (std gauages use a different part).  That is way cheaper than the NOS motorcraft ones on eBay.  I just hope it's not a made in China special.

Yeah, i saw the speedometer cables are still available.  I will try to lubricate mine first, as I question if the aftermarket ones are any good.  Parts all seem to be offshore junk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-October-2020 at 5:14PM
is this it?


and i just accidentally ran across speedo cables on Rockauto, cheap like <$15

under the Interior heading IIRC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-October-2020 at 11:24AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

might as well give it a new Instrument Cluster Voltage Regulator

say that real fast five times while chugging a beer Beer

and check / clean the contacts of the PCB

welcome to my world. it's not always something, it's always something else too

Do you know where I can get one?  I guess just hunt for one on eBay? Now that I have the cluster out, I might as well give it a good once over.  I do have a new repro PCB, but my original still looks solid, which is why I haven't swapped it yet.
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