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Fuel/Engine Question on a 1974 Gran Torino Elite |
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Beast1984 
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Joined: 12-October-2009 Location: Kansas Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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 Topic: Fuel/Engine Question on a 1974 Gran Torino ElitePosted: 12-October-2009 at 4:01PM |
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Hello all, first time using this particular forum... I have tried finding my answers all over the web, but no such luck. Figured someone here would be my best bet!
Anyhow, I am looking at buying a 1974 Ford Gran Torino Elite. The car is in very good shape, 400M motor. One of the main issues the owner has informed of, is that the engine smokes here and there, but not all of the time. The smoke seems to be a greyish color, with an oily smell to go along with it. He figures that it's probably the rings, and so would I.... One thing he mentioned was that it doesn't seem to smoke at all when the car has a full tank of gas. It sems to smoke the most when below a quarter of a tank. Is there any possiblility at all that the problem could be with something that is in the fuel tank? (Say... if someone had been ticked off at a previous owner and dumped oil in the gas tank.) Also, the owner says it takes unleaded fuel, but he has only had the car for around a year, so is it possible that he may have made a mistake and it really should take leaded fuel? I can't find what year Ford switched to unleaded in this particular engine... I would think that it probably says right on the dash if it takes unleaded... maybe not. If that's so, would it honestly cause the engine to smoke?
 I appreciate any help that anyone can give. I am just kinda up in the air on whether or not I should do this deal for the car or not.... I mean, if I wind up doing a rebuild on the motor, that wouldn't be the end of the world... (or a different engine... hehe...
 ) this car figures to not need a major overhaul right now, but just a few odds 'n ends things done. It's not the exact car that I want, but the deal is good, and the car is in darn good shape for the age. Just wondering what I might be getting into a little more...Thank you! Edited by Beast1984 - 12-October-2009 at 4:09PM |
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crispy23c
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Joined: 10-November-2007 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Posted: 13-October-2009 at 12:32AM |
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You could have gummy buildup in the tank. If so, you would need to either pull the tank and have it boiled (like at a radiator shop) or replaced. If the car doesn't smoke when the tank is full and only when it's low, then it's gotta be the tank/it's contents when it's low.
Have you started the car cold? Have you started it warm?
With the unleaded, Ford- and every other manufacturer- switched to unleaded as a federal mandate, so every engine was chenged the same year, which I believe is 1973. So if it's the original engine you just need to know what year Unleaded Fuel was mandated.
Hope this helps
~Chris
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GranTorinoMan
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Posted: 13-October-2009 at 4:38AM |
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Oil could be leaking past the rings, valve seals or valve guides on an old engine. No need for leaded gas anymore and the 400M can be swapped for a 460 without changing the transmission.
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Beast1984
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Posted: 13-October-2009 at 11:26AM |
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That makes sense that it is probably unleaded. I was thinking 1972 was the last year for leaded fuel.
Most of the time when it is the rings, etc., then the smoke is actually as blueish shade, but this smoke is really more grey than blue. But, it is not white, and the current owner is pretty sure it's not a head or anything. So, I am not sold on the exact issue... the gas tank deal was something he just recently noticed.
Thank you for the responses guys. I really appreciate it!
If you have anymore ideas, send 'em my way!
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Posted: 13-October-2009 at 3:06PM |
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nope my 74 351 C is a leaded motor It came form my uncles 74 Ranchero and I had to buy lead substitute and put in the gas so i won't mess up the valve seats.i'll check my 73 Gran Torino but I have no paper work or owners manual so I doubt the sticker is on the car any more as it's had a repaint I think they were on the flip down tags or maybe they might even have a sticker in the glove box i don't know.when I had my torino in AZ in 92 they still had leaded fuel so that is what I put in the car.The unleaded motors have hardened valve seats in the heads. I have to get my heads done this time to convert to unleaded
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Beast1984
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Posted: 13-October-2009 at 4:59PM |
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My mom had a 1972 Gran Torino Brougham that required leaded fuel... I am pretty sure this vehicle is supposed to have unleaded, but I wanna make for sure, since it has the smoking issue off and on.
Perhaps a purchase, and then the swap over to a 460...? Hehehe... Here's an additional question... what would you value (or pay for) a 1974 Gran Torino Elite? Body is in awesome shape, and so is the interior... Supposedly has 64K original miles.... only thing that stands out that needs to be done is the rear reflector in the middle is missing, the "chrome" trim around the tail lights is coming off, and the rear bumper is missing a couple trim pieces. Oh, and it needs a hood ornament! haha. So those things are minimal to me, but the engine issue has me up in the air. I wasn't wanting to do an engine swap right away... sigh. NADA value has a car like this pegged at roughly $6,200 if it's in good shape, and around $3,400 if in only fair shape. They are asking $3,000, and I have talked them down some. I guess I just don't wanna get ripped off. That, and I honestly would prefer a '72 ('73 if I had to). I have just kinda run into this deal,a nd the car is SO clean and it is rare in and of the sense that they only made this model with this name in 1974 only. It's just not quite as sporty looking, etc. If the darn government wouldn't have made manufacturers change the way they had to design bumpers...  What do you guys think? Thank you again!  Edited by Beast1984 - 13-October-2009 at 5:03PM |
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Torinogts73c
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Posted: 14-October-2009 at 2:38AM |
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officially Ford started unleaded fuel in 1975 when catlylitic convertors were first used. Compression was dropped in many vehicles in 1971 i.e. 351CJ at first. Used the unleaded with no worries, I have never had issues on my motor since day one. Lead is so bad for the enviroment that it is best to stay away from it.
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Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,17 Mustang Ecoboost,15 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD, Ford Ranger parts hauler
"Never complain Never explain" Henry Ford |
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PatsPOS
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Posted: 14-October-2009 at 5:03PM |
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Beast...my opinion is that if the car is as clean as you say it is, then $3000 is probably a fair price...definitely won't hurt to haggle, though! Now this next part is total heresay...according to my dear ol' dad, Ford engines were built with hardened valve seats starting in '72, even though the government didn't require that automobiles use unleaded until '75.
This part isn't heresay...it wasn't enough that the government require new cars in '75 to use only unleaded...although a lot of people found a way around it easily enough. Heck, I run unleaded in Ford tractors built from the early '40s to the mid-'70s that appear to run well enough. But, probably since some Congressman's kid ate a few housepaint chips and suffered some kind of brain damage, they decided lead was bad in everything, and in '85, they banned leaded gas for automotive use, period (73PST, unless you were using aviation or racing fuel in Arizona, I don't know where you were getting it...it sure wasn't out of a pump at a gas station).
Damn treehuggers...always getting their way with government bigwigs. In the '70s, it was leaded gas, in the '80s it was aerosol cans, in the '90s it was R-12 refrigerant. Always taking something good from us without any conclusive proof of damage (first guy that says he believes the hype about "global warming" gets a swift kick in the giggle berries :D ). Someone remind me what the bane of this decade is...
[/rant]
Pat Edited by PatsPOS - 14-October-2009 at 5:04PM |
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'75 460 Gran Torino Sport (14.04 @ 97 MPH)
'91 Crown Vic (18.09 @ 75 MPH) '89 300 F-150 (18.37 @ 73 MPH) |
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BIGEMUN
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Joined: 26-June-2006 Location: Minneapolis,Mn. Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Posted: 14-October-2009 at 5:59PM |
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Here's your reminder!
Looks like the tree huggers are targeting phosphates in the dishwasher detergent now, I think effective Jan 1st here in Minnesota it will be banned like it is in Wa. state. Guess I had better stock up for the Holiday's to come in the future or I'll be doing alot of hand washing.Took me about 7 years to use up the case of r-12 I bought before it was banned. Hmm, maybe better buy 2 cases of soap!!
Jeff
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1975 Gran Torino Sport
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Beast1984
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Posted: 15-October-2009 at 4:07PM |
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I would say the ban that has at least started this decade is the incandescent light bulb.
According to the energy bill that was signed last year by President Bush, all incandescent light bulbs (home, business, etc. use...) are supposed to be fazed out by the year 2014. Among other things, the "fatter" fluorescent tube lights are also being fazed out, and you will only be able to to buy the "skinnier" tubes. Which, sucks for me... I have a shop and basement full of fixtures that will only take the fatter tubes! Ugggghhh.... Thanks for the info, Pats! |
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BIGEMUN
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Posted: 16-October-2009 at 6:37AM |
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Late this summer I talked to a guy at a car show that originally hated the purchase of his elite,but said he loves it now with a "different look". Took a picture in case I ever get an elite, to look beyond the stock look of the car, and what could be done to change it.
Jeff
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1975 Gran Torino Sport
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Beast1984
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Posted: 16-October-2009 at 12:24PM |
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That car looks a whole heck of a lot better, I think, with the changes that have been done! I wouldn't do the yellow flame deal, but otherwise, it looks clean!
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crispy23c
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Posted: 16-October-2009 at 1:38PM |
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Wow. That does look very nice.
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GranTorinoMan
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Posted: 17-October-2009 at 3:41AM |
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Love that Midnight Blue!
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Posted: 17-October-2009 at 12:51PM |
oh so not true I was buying leaded gas straight from the gas station pump at Circle K in Benson,AZ in 1992 when i lived there for 6 months and it was like under a doller a gallon ,I think it was like 80-90 cents a gallon back then.but it was most definatley leaded gas as I lived in Florida when I installed the 351C and had to use lead substitute additive in my gas and was suprised as heck to see leaded gas in AZ as Florida had already banned leaded gas and most all the states I traveled through getting from Florida to AZ.I towed my car 73 Torino using a towbar and removed the drive shaft with a 74 ford F100 with 460 cu in Auto but I know I used unleaded in the truck.
they say the unleaded will work but it will deteriorate the valve seats on the exhaust side as it burns hotter and the lead isn't there to lubricate and protect it like the motor was designed for with leaded fuel.
You can have the heads machined and hardened valve seats installed but use a machine shop that has experience with that type of work as if not done properly they can ruin the heads.
I don't know for sure if Ford used hardened valve seats before 1975 and want to have my heads checked as I wouldn't want issues later as 351C's are becoming rare motors these days
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GranTorinoMan
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Posted: 18-October-2009 at 5:48AM |
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Unless you plan to put 100K on your engine, you don't have to worry about hardened valve seats according to my buddy who has been a machinest over 25 years. He said it would be a good idea to check your valve seats for hair line cracks which was the key reason why they started using hardened valve seats after 1975. The old soft valves used to get worn down and become rough around the edges and that caused valve seat wearing issues. The best way to increase valve seat life is to buy new valves that are made with super hard material that won't wear out.
Lead is dead, but if your looking for a way to boost octane here is an intersting chart using the lead substitute Toluene:
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Posted: 18-October-2009 at 7:28AM |
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I plan on redoing my heads so I will have them checked and also install new valves and guides and then port and polish them along with port and polish on the 4 barrel aluminum intake. I can't remember what i did with the heads last time if I put valves or not but it will get a valve job this time for sure and also install the studs for roller adjustable rockers
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PatsPOS wrote: