INFO: The Coil Spring Thread |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Ah. The Jeeps have the shocks mounted seperately from the springs (big bumpstop at the top of the spring, pocket at the bottom) and I tried inserting it through the spring. Good thing they have solid axles on both ends (loosen a few bolts and the axles drop enough to let the springs fall out/ Leafs on the XJ rears) or it would indeed be dangerous to pry on them. I was just trying to save time - ended up being a fast job when done correctly.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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sabatona
Senior Member Joined: 18-March-2012 Location: Champaign IL Status: Offline Points: 224 |
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I wonder if a machine shop could make a tapered "extension" for the stock lower ball joint that would allow you to screw the extension onto the original ball joint (with an inside taper to match the outside), and then you would just tack weld it to hold it from unscrewing?
I might order in a stock lower ball joint and take it to a machine shop for their opinion. If this does not work, then I think I will just go the coilsprings.com route with 1 1/2 inch drop springs. Will let you all know if the machine shop idea pans out....thanks for the ideas.
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73 GTS 351 4V Q Code
Blue Glow/Blue Int 1 of 1 |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Just wondering on the guys who did the Moog 80090 CVPI springs, did you get any settling with time?
I finally got my car back together and it sits at about 27.5". I am hoping it settles a bit after I drive it, but I got to get it into the alignment shop this week. |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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I don't know if I have had any settling to be honest.
I also installed the matching CVPI shocks. I honestly have not noticed much difference. Debated about taking half a coil off this winter however. Shot from about 2 weeks ago.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Andy, I think a 1/2" to 1" drop on the front would be WAY COOL!
Edited by Regul8r - 22-August-2012 at 6:33AM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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And you complain it rides like a truck now?
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Thanks Andy. Well if mine doesn't settle, I may cut half a coil too. My car was sitting at about 26.5" with stock springs, but they were definitely saggy. I just got used to the lower look.
I haven't replaced the rears yet, so maybe when I do them it will improve the stance. |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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I got my car aligned today and was able to put it throught it's paces it bit. What a HUGE improvement in handling. The CVPI springs with the larger sway bar keeps the car very flat in hard corners. I think the ride is great, better than before. It's defintely firm, but by no means harsh. If anything a late model CVPI seems more harsh. I am sure the Bilstien shocks help with that too, they are excellent.
The rear feels soft now. I am going to try Moog 8531's which are about 183 in/lbs. I know the CVPI's use about 170 in/lbs rear. I don't know what the stock spring rate is, all I know is that they are the HD springs which have a higher load rate than even the stock Competition suspesnion springs. I don't like variable rate springs, so I don't want to run cargo coils. Hopefully these with the new 7/8's sway bar, and Bilstiens, will stiffen up the rear end and slighly lift it. As for others thinking of Moog 80090, I highly recommend them. Just be warned on a 1972 they will not lower the car at all, so be prepared to trim them if you want to lower the car. |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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GA Army Vet
Member Joined: 24-October-2010 Location: 30525 GA Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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this is my ride height now, and I like the back end.... What shocks will keep me the same heaight at 26in from ground with 215/65-16
Here is my car
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1973 GTS-351c C6 28sp axle 2.73gears (looking to change)
2004 electric wheelchair super fast! Disabled Iraq Vet, IED boke my back and severed my nerves into my legs I can walk but it hurts bad. |
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BackInBlack
Senior Member Joined: 11-January-2011 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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I believe taht the stock rear springs on the GTS is 192 lb/in rate. However, its variable rate. From what I calculated from stock compression height...it appears to be average rate of 183 lb/in.
I think the crown vic's rate is 160 lb/ins, but the tail end is lighter than a fastback gts.
-John Edited by BackInBlack - 25-September-2012 at 2:39AM |
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-John
1973 GTS |
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BackInBlack
Senior Member Joined: 11-January-2011 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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I also did an extensive search for alternative rear springs and didn't find anything. I found chevy springs but the pigtail is a different size. I came to the conclusion that if you want different spring rates, constant rate, or change the ride height you will have to order custom springs from:
eatonsprings.com
coilsprings.com
The prices I received was about $189 with shipping around $25
This is what I decided to do. Planning constant rate spring about 1" lower and increase the rate to 200 lbs/in approx.
-John
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-John
1973 GTS |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Those CC 801's are cargo coils, and stiffer than stock but like you said variable rate. If you look up the Moog stock 1972 Torino springs it only lists one at 158 in/lbs, 8307. Some later year Torinos used even softer rears, around 144 in/lbs. We don't know what the factory spring rates are, Ford didn't list them, only the load rates (which is simply the amount of weight the spring is designed to carry). That said, if all else is equal, generally, the only way to get a higher load rate is to have a high spring rate (stiffer spring). The Police had the highest, followed by the HD springs, followed by the competition suspension, and the lowest were the stock suspension. Earlier in this thread, I think there is a spread sheet that compares all the aftermarket spring available for our cars. Without going to cargos (varible rate), the stiffest you can get from the aftermarket replacement springs is about 183 in/lbs. |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Ol' Brown's Resurrection is contributing to the Coil Spring Thread...
Moog CC819 rear coils will NOT work on a 72! The top and bottom pigtails are too tightly wound, they do NOT fit around the spring perches TOP OR BOTTOM. They are REAL CLOSE to the same height uninstalled as the 40yr old stock springs. 16.5" But I made some measurements anyway... ALL measurements are with 295/50/15 tires and measured ground to center of the wheel well at the bottom edge of the fender lip. Air shocks raised the car 2" with the saggy 40yr old springs. But when I did let the weight on the new CC819 just to see and measure the air shocks were maxed out even without air! So it may be that with high springs I may need shock extender tops. Old springs with full air shocks at 28"... CC819's installed and sitting at 29". Man, these things are STIFF! Time to send these back and we'll see what springs to put in from the height/weight numbers in the chart, hopefully they will fit the perches.
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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robot9000
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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So, to add another angle here...
Does anyone know what, specifically, the difference btw the Moog CC801's and the Eaton Torino springs (No Part number) for the rear of a 73 ? Different dia wire? Different load rating? Eaton's are $160 for a set of rears, Moogs go for $80. Not a huge cost difference, but for $80, it would be nice to know exactly what the difference is. Maybe its the ability to call Eaton and ask for a stiffer, taller, shorter spring and get what is right for my application (this per their website). Thanks ! |
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1973 Gran Torino Sport
2010 Mazda 6 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2011 Damon Daybreak 35BD |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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I have a set of 188# Eaton springs that are 1 1/2" (?) higher than stock. Not sure I'm going to wind up leaving them in though. I have no real weight on the springs aside from the body they seem a bit too high for me.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Pic of the car from the side with these springs? Maybe a measurement from ground to the fender lip and what tires are you running? |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Well, I have do rear springs. Right rear coil is bad.
Also replacing my shocks. Aside from oem type shocks, what aftermarket monotubes are suggested? I am not impressed with my front shocks I replaced. Just realize 16+ pages. Thinking time to rework the details. Edited by Eliteman76 - 20-February-2013 at 9:41AM |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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73GTS
Senior Member Joined: 22-September-2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 945 |
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What about the cvpi shocks? Could pony up for some Bilstien.
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Jim
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occupant
Senior Member Joined: 23-October-2006 Location: Lawton, OK Status: Offline Points: 1973 |
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I'm about to have to contribute to this thread, I think.
Taking the sedan in for a steering/suspension bits quote this afternoon. Also getting that filler neck gasket installed so I can put more than 5-6 gallons of fuel in at a time. I'm expecting a very high quote and I plan to buy some parts at RockAuto to save on that. If the springs are broken anywhere I intend to replace the fronts with the CVPI ones, Moog 80090s ($65.79 a pair on RockAuto at the moment) and the rears with Moog CC807's (only a dollar more for the pair). I like float, but I want to be able to steer around corners. The CC803's are only $52.79 a pair though, and I'm considering those because I do carry all my tools with me all the time in the sedan. Shocks I know I need for sure, I'm thinking Monroe all around. Sensa-Trac 58263 Load Adjusting up front and Max Air MA805's out back, that way I can adjust as needed with an air compressor. I hope they don't have to replace the entire steering system (tie rod outer and inner, upper and lower ball joints, idler/pitman arms, center link), so I can afford to go after all this is done and grab a set of the 16" CVPI steel wheels, trim rings, and some decent H-or-better-speed-rated 225/60R16 tires. Then I definitely need seats and maybe carpet. Then I'll be ready for HRPT and maybe if I'm lucky I'll have the vacuum leak found by then and it'll fly. |
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08 Uplander LS, 262K, broken again
08 Explorer EB, 195K, for the wife still looking for another something |
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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Sway bars will do a lot more to control float vs springs..
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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I put the CVPI shocks on the wagon. Huge difference, even with the stock springs.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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NwOh_Starsky
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Na Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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Anyone got a picture of the rear springs with a spacer installed? I have 295/50-15's on the rear of my Torino and am sitting dangerously close to rubbing on the wheel lips. I have newish cc807's and it is still in this position. I'm interested in pics of the side and / or under for mounting purposes.
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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What rims are on the car? |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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NwOh_Starsky
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Na Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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15X10 unknown back spacing. They are the cheap Nascar like ones by US wheel
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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I ended up using Moog 8531 rear springs, which are about 183 in/lbs. I wanted a constant rate spring and I figured it would be an good match with the CVPI spring. I can say anyone who is looking for a spring that sits pretty much at stock height (for '72 GTS) and wants a constant rate spring, these are a awesome match for the CVPI springs. With the addition of Bilstein shocks, Addco front and rear sway bars my car is very flat in the corners, very well balanced and still has an excellent ride. I haven't pushed it super hard yet, but so far it's unbelievable that a 40+ year old car can handle this well and drive this nice. Plain and simple the car is a BLAST to drive, it feels very buttoned down and well planted.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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BackInBlack
Senior Member Joined: 11-January-2011 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Do you have any before/after measurements of ride height or pics to share?
I like your setup...sounds close to what I was thinking, but using standard parts. I think good aftermarket shocks will help a whole bunch. Thanks John
Edited by BackInBlack - 10-July-2013 at 9:27AM |
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-John
1973 GTS |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Hey John,
my stock springs were pretty saggy, so I was sitting at about 26" at the front wheels and 25.5" at the rears. With the CVPI springs I am 27.25" at the front, the 8531 26.5". The rear looks prefect, but my front end is a tad high. I plan to eventually cut a half coil from the front springs to get a better stance. If I dropped the front about an 1" I think it look perfect. Yes, the shocks are very important. I highly recommend the Bilsteins. I have used them on several other cars and they never disappoint. My tires a 245/60-15's all the way around, which are basically identical in height to the stock G70-14's. Edited by 72FordGTS - 10-July-2013 at 1:21PM |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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OleDutchD
Member Joined: 02-August-2003 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Just finished a weeks' worth of fussin' and cussin' with the front springs on this '72. A previous owner (8-9 years ago) stuffed some ridiculous springs in this thing (somewhere, there's an armored personnel carrier sitting up on blocks.... ) because he thought he was gonna go racing. It has sat/rode this entire time stuffed up against the upper bump stops! After trying to trim (and then OVERTRIMMING) those particular springs, I stuffed some trimmed CVPI (Moog 80090) springs in it yesterday. With 295/45-18's and 255/45-17's, OE rear springs, CVPI front springs (less 1/2 coil), Monroe Severe Service CVPI shocks all around, 42 year old OE bushings (F&R) and ball joints... it currently sits @ 27-1/2" to the rear fender lip and 27-1/4" to the front fender lip. Car settles less than 1/2" up front when we climb in. The spindles are at a totally neutral position between the bump stops up front and, after flogging on it last night, there's no sign of incidental interference anywhere. Keep in mind when I mention heights and springs-n-such, this is a 351W/C6 car with aluminum heads/intake, no AC and the battery is in the trunk. Your mileage may vary......... |
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Just an analog guy stuck in a digital world!
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OleDutchD
Member Joined: 02-August-2003 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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A rule of thumb that I've stumbled across more than a few times was that (as the basis for a STARTING point, only) the amount of drop tends to be twice the dimension of the amount trimmed. I completely understand that uninstalled free height, compressed installed height, spring rate and load are all variable factors affecting such. Just sayin'.....
Following that line of reasoning, when the time comes to trim the springs further to dial in the front ride height (I'd still like to drop the nose another 1/2">1"), I'll trim 1/8 coil from the front for a theoretical 1/2" drop. Also, as I stated previously, I may not have quite as much weight hanging up front as some others. Your mileage may vary..... |
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Just an analog guy stuck in a digital world!
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OleDutchD
Member Joined: 02-August-2003 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Just a quick update. Decided I wanted to go ahead and drop the nose another inch, so I trimmed another 1/4 coil off the CVPI springs in front, last weekend.
Unloaded, free-height, the Moog CVPI springs measure 2" coil-coil, so a quarter of a coil would be 1/2". Re-installed and loaded, the 1/4 coil (1/2") trim resulted in a 1" drop. Perfect. |
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Just an analog guy stuck in a digital world!
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